# Census to show first decline of white population **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 25, 2021, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986 "2021-06-25T04:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MagicEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@MagicEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicEyes)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/41 "2021-06-29T23:25:09Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Look. You have 20 people, ten black and ten white, That is diversity. Stir well and fast forward a few generations and you have 18 brown, one white, one black. That’s NOT diversity. Which do you want? It’s not like putting milk in coffee. They don’t all come out exactly the same color. Have you ever seen real people? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/42 "2021-06-29T23:45:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Secondly - genetics doesn’t work that way. > [@Babale](#): > > Are you sure? I thought genetics was like mixing paint. For quantitative traits that are controlled by many genes of small effect, it’s more like mixing paint. Stature, probably skin pigmentation. [Quantitative trait locus - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_trait_locus) Whereas traits controlled by a single locus are _not_ like mixing paint, they follow a Mendelian pattern of inheritance. Blood type, eye color. [Mendelian inheritance - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance) ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/43 "2021-06-30T01:35:22Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Look. You have 20 people, ten black and ten white, That is diversity. Stir well and fast forward a few generations and you have 18 brown, one white, one black. That’s NOT diversity. Which do you want? Why are you in a mixed-race marriage if you think the races should be kept separate “to preserve diversity.” ( 🙄) Or is it only Black-White couples that you think should not be allowed? ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/44 "2021-06-30T04:36:58Z")
Where did I say that I thought diversity “should” be preserved? Where did I say anything “should” be attained or preserved? Current conventional wisdom is that diversity is a good thing. OK, fine. When you want diversity, and you have it, how do you plan to preserve what you think is a good thing? Racist social engineering? Do what you please, I’m just watching. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/45 "2021-06-30T06:04:00Z")
In case you all haven’t figured it out, jtur thinks that he has a clever gotcha and that people who like diversity are actually hypocrites because somehow diversity ultimately makes things less diverse. Something like that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/46 "2021-06-30T08:43:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > For quantitative traits that are controlled by many genes of small effect, it’s more like mixing paint. Stature, probably skin pigmentation. Or not… > **[The hoopla over these "rare" biracial twins twins reveals how confused people...](https://www.vox.com/2017/1/29/14377940/biracial-twins-black-white-race-identity)** > > Their different complexions aren’t some racial miracle. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/47 "2021-06-30T10:10:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Or not… There are a very large number of loci involved in skin pigmentation, to the extent that it’s treated as a classic example of a quantitative trait. That doesn’t mean it’s _literally_ like mixing paint, where a child will always fall exactly halfway between the parents. The genetics are complex, and the existence of unusual cases like the kids above doesn’t refute the general principle. If humans interbreed randomly with respect to parental skin pigmentation, there _will_ be a general trend toward intermediate pigmentation, i.e. variance in pigmentation will decrease. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/48 "2021-06-30T10:17:40Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > That doesn’t mean it’s _literally_ like mixing paint, where a child will always fall exactly halfway between the parents. Then don’t agree with someone who’s saying it is (even if, I suspect, they’re saying it sarcastically) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/49 "2021-06-30T10:18:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Then don’t agree with someone who’s saying it is (even if, I suspect, sarcastically) I agreed with the analogy because as a first approximation some traits _are_ more like mixing paint than Mendelian inheritance. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/50 "2021-06-30T12:24:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Then don’t agree with someone who’s saying it is (even if, I suspect, they’re saying it sarcastically) I was being sarcastic, yes. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/51 "2021-06-30T23:23:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@MrDibble](#): > > > > Then don’t agree with someone who’s saying it is (even if, I suspect, sarcastically) > > I agreed with the analogy because as a first approximation some traits _are_ more like mixing paint than Mendelian inheritance. I don’t think it’s all that good even as a first approximation. I’ve seen a lot of families where the kids have significantly different skin colors. Similarly, I’ve seen full siblings one of whom looks “east Asian” to me and the other who whom doesn’t. The first time I noticed that was in college, when my (Chinese-American) roommate’s cousin visited, and I was surprised when I saw her, because she was “white”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/52 "2021-07-01T00:20:24Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > When you want diversity, and you have it, how do you plan to preserve what you think is a good thing? As pointed out, we’ll have plenty of ethnic and cultural diversity, as well as economic, political, and every other kind. If (_somehow_) all people were the same shade of brown, I’m sure we’d adjust just fine. I can’t really imagine that happening in the next 15 to 20 generations, but who knows. In the meantime, we celebrate diversity and put our worries about a dark beige sea of humanity on the back burner for a few hundred years. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/53 "2021-07-01T04:47:05Z")
That same shade of tan has pretty much happened already in Brazil, and it took only about two generations. The same two generations since I couldn’t understand anyone in my grandfather’s local store – we had plenty of cultural diversity then, but didn’t appreciate it. 200 years is a long time. 200 years ago, a majority of the world’s people had never seen a single human being from a different culture, let alone a different race. And those they saw were conquerors. Now there are people alive who have seen a whole pendulum swing. My wife grew up barefoot in the jungle, never imagining water taps or electric lights. The change will be dizzying even in 20 years. We have already entered an era of social engineering. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/54 "2021-07-01T06:52:08Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > That same shade of tan has pretty much happened already in Brazil, and it took only about two generations. There are a lot of tan people in Brazil. There are _also_ a lot of dark and light Brazilians. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/55 "2021-07-01T12:45:06Z")
I read an interesting paper about Brazil a while back (2003) [https://www.pnas.org/content/100/1/177.full](https://www.pnas.org/content/100/1/177.full) “Our data suggest that in Brazil, at an individual level, color, as determined by physical evaluation, is a poor predictor of genomic African ancestry, estimated by molecular markers.” So there is a wide range of color variation - but you can’t tell ancestry very well by looking at someone’s skin ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/56 "2021-07-01T15:41:23Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > That same shade of tan has pretty much happened already in Brazil… Brazilians: [![](https://image.sciencenorway.no/1440810.jpg?imageId=1440810&width=480&height=274) ](https://image.sciencenorway.no/1440810.jpg?imageId=1440810&width=480&height=274) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/57 "2021-07-01T15:46:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Brazilians: @jtur88 be like: [![](https://i.imgflip.com/5f5ai6.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/5f5ai6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/58 "2021-07-01T15:48:22Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Here in Texas, there’s basically no difference between a fourth generation Latino and your average Bubba besides a surname. Same in California. I had two co-workers who were both natural redheads and very white who married Mexican American guys. One woman’s kids were all very light and even had the reddish hair. We’d tease her about her “strong” genes. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Instead there are kitschy things like Columbus, OH German Village that attempt to capitalize on the historic presence of a bona fide German American community that has long since ceased to exist. I “toured” German Village decades ago when it was first a designated “historic” area. My mom’s family moved up to Columbus from Murray City when she was 7, and they lived in the German Town area. I’m ignoring jtur88. I wish I were more “brownish.” ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/59 "2021-07-02T00:34:51Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My wife grew up barefoot in the jungle, never imagining water taps or electric lights. So again, if you are so concerned about interracial couples causing the death of diversity, why did you, a white American, marry a Filipino women who “grew up in the jungle?” ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986/60 "2021-07-02T03:58:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@jtur88](#): > > > > That same shade of tan has pretty much happened already in Brazil… > > Brazilians: Those are actors and models selected by a casting agency to reflect what some PR firm wishes Brazilians looked like. There are no fat, old Brazilians with imperfect teeth? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/census-to-show-first-decline-of-white-population/944986.md?page=4)