# Centrifuge discovery in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392 "2003-06-25T23:26:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/1 "2003-06-25T23:26:30Z")
CNN is reporting that an Iraqi scientist has led U.S. investigators to a gas centrifuge and related equipment typically used to enrich uranium for bombs. Apparently, he buried it in his back yard on orders from Saddam or his sons. Justification at last? If you were against the war or (like me) at least somewhat disillusioned by the lack of hard evidence, does this change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/2 "2003-06-25T23:35:01Z")
If you aren’t getting the right answers, just change the questions. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/3 "2003-06-25T23:38:33Z")
According to even Administration officials, this is still not the smoking gun. No weapons. No uranium. These items were buried before even the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/4 "2003-06-25T23:39:05Z")
You could post a link to the story so everyone can read it. > [@](#): > > U.S. officials: Find is not smoking gun > [@](#): > > The parts were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them in his back yard under a rose bush 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein’s then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel. > > U.S. officials emphasized this was not evidence Iraq had a nuclear weapon – but it was evidence the Iraqis concealed plans to reconstitute their nuclear program as soon as the world was no longer looking. The war wasn’t over what they might do. It was over a clear and present danger. [http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/5 "2003-06-25T23:40:56Z")
It’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/6 "2003-06-25T23:43:27Z")
> **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. Another link… hmmmm…why would those nice Hussein boys BURY something? That’s odd. Especially when they were being so forthcoming… Why do people bury stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/7 "2003-06-25T23:45:24Z")
Just let me know when they find bunsen burners, test tubes and petri dishes, too. THEN we’ll be on to something! ---
**Author:** ![zoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71c47a/32.png) [@zoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/8 "2003-06-25T23:46:22Z")
Hard to build a bomb when parts you need are in some guys backyard under a bush. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/9 "2003-06-25T23:56:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*According to even Administration officials, this is still not the smoking gun. No weapons. No uranium. > > These items were buried before even the first Gulf War. \*\* What’s more, as this was buried under some guy’s rose bush, there is no way in hell that this was what Bush was talking about in his State of the Union address. Dubya could not have possibly known about the existence of these parts. This is simply something that the Administration lucked out on in finding – and it’s not that impressive at that. Certainly not sexy enough for the Republicans to take advantage of, _especially_ when the CNN article has to define what a centrifuge is. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Hicks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbce88/32.png) [@Ben\_Hicks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ben_Hicks)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/10 "2003-06-25T23:59:28Z")
**Azael** How? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/11 "2003-06-26T00:02:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > Just let me know when they find bunsen burners, test tubes and petri dishes, too. THEN we’ll be on to something! I’m awaiting for the upcoming scandal of the Secret Iraqi High School Chemistry Textbooks, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/12 "2003-06-26T04:21:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\*You could post a link to the story so everyone can read it. > \*\* Sorry. I assumed that everyone knew where to find CNN’s site and its featured story. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/13 "2003-06-26T04:28:41Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s a start. To a strawman. I think Somersby has done a good job of pointing this out. The questions that are being asked are very very different from those being answered. > [@](#): > > Question: Why did Cheney keep saying Saddam had nukes when intelligence agencies seemed to think otherwise? > Question: Why did Bush say Saddam was trying to buy uranium in Africa when the claim had been discarded as a hoax? > > Question: Why did Rumsfeld say Saddam was allied with al Qaeda when intelligence agencies seemed to think different? > > Question: Why did Rice say the aluminum tubes could only be used for nukes when intelligence agencies had decided otherwise? > > Question: Why did Bush say that Saddam’s UAVs could hit the US when they had an air range of 300 miles? And yet the question being ANSWERED always implies that the question is “Did Saddam Hussien ever have a weapons program or WMD at any time?” And they answer it “of course, you fools, how can you be so dumb as to deny that?” ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/14 "2003-06-26T04:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Azael > > How? \*\* Anything is better than nothing. They found a centrifuge, that’s one less centrifuge waiting to become buried treasure for some disaffected Islamic group. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/15 "2003-06-26T04:37:17Z")
Someone more accuainted with the processes involved in uranium enrichment may give a more substantial opinion, but… as far as I know you won`t get too far with a single centrifugue, I remember that uranium enrichment plants have hundreds of centrifugues working in series to do the process. A single centrifugue, buried for 12 years doesn´t seem to me like a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/16 "2003-06-26T04:47:14Z")
Here’s a nice shot of the multi-centrifuge banks at Urenco’s [enrichment facility](http://www.urenco.com/htm/uranium_enrichment_services/centrifuges.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/17 "2003-06-26T04:54:11Z")
When did Dick Cheney say that Iraq had nukes? I don’t remember it. He said they could be as little as six months away IF they had the fissionables. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/18 "2003-06-26T09:39:23Z")
What a crock. The MSNBC link above shows what looks to be a single bearing. The CNN link shows a hub. > [@](#): > > [http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030625-102141-6927r.htm](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20030625-102141-6927r.htm) > The components include some of the most difficult parts of a centrifuge to produce. Centrifuges require high-strength steel and special bearings because of the high speeds involved in the spinning process. So how far would they get with a single centrifuge (assuming for the moment that the whole thing was there, and not just a couple of bits)? > [@](#): > > [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraq\_wmd/Iraq\_Oct\_2002.htm](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm). > Based on tubes of the size Iraq is trying to acquire, **a few tens of thousands of centrifuges** would be capable of producing enough highly enriched uranium for **a couple of weapons per year.** So they’d need to run this centrifuge for about ten thousand years to get enough enriched uranium for a single bomb. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@And\_that\_s\_the\_bottom\_line](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/And_that_s_the_bottom_line)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/19 "2003-06-26T10:40:10Z")
From the [MSNBC article](http://www.msnbc.com/news/931304.asp?0cm=c10): > [@](#): > > U.S. OFFICIALS said the discoveries were not proof that Iraq had managed to build or obtain banned weapons of mass destruction, as President Bush asserted before the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March. And this is what bothers me. The evidence presented here does not really prove some of the claims Bush made for why we should go to war. I still believe we went into war under false pretenses. When I see more definitive evidence of WMD’s I’ll believe it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2003, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392/20 "2003-06-26T10:50:20Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Azael_\* > > They found a centrifuge, that’s one less centrifuge waiting to become buried treasure for some disaffected Islamic group. How operable could a centrifuge that’s been buried for 12 years be? If we have to wait for disaffected Islamic groups to stumble across buried centrifuges in order for us to be threatened by WOMDs, then I think we’ve got a few more years of liberty and freedom to enjoy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/centrifuge-discovery-in-iraq/184392.md?page=2)