# CEO's pay -- 300 times regular folks'! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259 "2015-06-23T16:59:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/21 "2015-06-23T19:49:00Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Again, since the bulk of the big paydays comes from stock options, the correlation is near perfect. It is? > [@](#): > > There are plenty of jaws dropping today after JPMorgan Chase said CEO Jamie Dimon will receive $20 million for his work in 2013. > > Despite what was arguably the bank’s worst year under Dimon’s reign, JPM’s board is awarding the CEO a 74% raise, which includes over $18 million in restricted stock. > > \ > > That kind of pay might not make for much news in any other year but 2013 was a painful one for JPM. The bank reported its first ever quarterly loss under Dimon’s lead. It was at the center of several high profile investigations, and ended up shelling out some $20 billion to settle legal claims. > > SOURCE: [Jamie Dimon Gets $20 Million For His Worst Year As CEO, Why The Big Raise?](http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2014/01/24/jamie-dimon-gets-20-million-for-his-worst-year-as-ceo-why-the-big-raise/) Who paid the bill for that $20 billion? Shareholders and consumers. Who won? Jamie Dimon. Or this: > [@](#): > > Former MF Global CEO Jon Corzine Gets $8 Million Pay Package After Firm Went Bankrupt > > SOURCE: [http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/05/22/488100/corzine-pay-package/](http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/05/22/488100/corzine-pay-package/) Not bad for shit canning the whole company. Or this: > [@](#): > > In the first Congressional hearing into the financial crisis, the former CEO of the bankrupt Lehman Brothers, Richard Fuld, became the poster boy for Wall Street greed today as he defended the $484 million he received in salary, bonuses and stock options since 2000. > > \ > > Fuld said given the collapse of Lehman Brothers and its now worthless stock, his actual holdings were closer to $350 million. > > SOURCE: [http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5965360](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5965360) Not bad for putting a storied financial firm in the grave. That is about $44 million per year on average. Glad to see his income matched his performance. The problem is all these guys sit on the boards of all these other guys. So A is on B’s board. B is on C’s board and C is on A’s board. It is a cozy and incestuous relationship and it is in all their interest to never throw anyone under the bus. Want to fix this problem something needs to be done about the circlejerk boards of directors and there should be clawback provisions on all their income for ten years. If they offshore their income they should be criminally prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/22 "2015-06-23T19:53:15Z")
Before we go any further, let’s be clear on where this “300x” pay for CEOs comes from. According to [FactCheck.org](http://FactCheck.org): > [@](#): > > According to the EPI [Economic Policy Institute] study, released in June 2014, average compensation for CEOs of the top 350 U.S. firms in 2013 was $15.2 million. That’s 295.9 times higher than the compensation paid to the typical workers at those firms, the study concluded. By comparison, the ratio was 20-to-1 in 1965 and grew to a peak of 383.4-to-1 in 2000. When considering CEO compensation, EPI considered salary and stock options as well as “bonuses, restricted stock grants, and long-term incentive payouts.” > > But that study only looked at the CEOs of the top 350 U.S. companies. > > \ > > In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that there were 246,240 chief executives in the U.S. in May 2014 (a little less than 1% of all workers). The median annual wage of those executives was $173,320 (the average wage was $180,700). That’s a little less than five times the median annual wage for all workers, including chief executives, which was $35,540 then. (The ratio is closer to 4-to-1 if comparing the average wage of CEOs to the average wage of all workers, $47,230.) > > The BLS data are wages and not total compensation, which can include items such as stock options, bonuses and benefits. So this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/23 "2015-06-23T20:02:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Before we go any further, let’s be clear on where this “300x” pay for CEOs comes from. According to [FactCheck.org](http://FactCheck.org): > > > [@](#): > > > > [In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that there were 246,240 chief executives in the U.S. in May 2014 (a little less than 1% of all workers). The median annual wage of those executives was $173,320 (the average wage was $180,700). That’s a little less than five times the median annual wage for all workers, including chief executives, which was $35,540 then. (The ratio is closer to 4-to-1 if comparing the average wage of CEOs to the average wage of all workers, $47,230.) Fine but to be clear about that smallish looking bubble at the top: > [@](#): > > The world’s wealthiest 1 percent is likely to control over 50 percent of global wealth by next year, according to Monday’s report. > > SOURCE: [The wealthiest are getting wealthier, and lobbying has a lot to do with it | PBS News](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/wealthiest-getting-wealthier-lobbying-lot/) To be in the wealthiest 1% you need to earn around [$394,000/year](http://www.forbes.com/sites/phildemuth/2013/11/25/are-you-rich-enough-the-terrible-tragedy-of-income-inequality-among-the-1/). So you can see near half of all wealth is really owned by the top 0.1% or 0.001%. Therein lies the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/24 "2015-06-23T20:05:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying you think I might possibly be saying that Jobs is a typical CEO? I think we can agree that Steve Jobs should not be a part of the discussion. Steve Jobs wasn’t hired to run Apple, he built it. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, the OP is referring to CEO hired guns. So we are talking less Steve Jobs, more Carly Fiorina and [Chuck Conaway and these other flame-outs](http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/management-leaders/chief-executives-ouster-major-ceo-flameouts-in-recent-times/charles-conaway-kmart/slideshow/19469608.cms). I guess, when it comes right down to it, nobody cares if the CEO makes a bajillion dollars if the company thrives. We only care when they make a bajillion bucks, run the company into bankruptcy, layoff workers and do no better than we ourselves could have done. Which, to a lay-observer or recently laid-off worker, seems more like the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/25 "2015-06-23T20:08:00Z")
You’re the Man, Whack-a-Mole! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/26 "2015-06-23T20:08:40Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > Can’t we all agree that the current system, if not seriously broken, is unfair to a huge number of hard-working people that are worthy of a larger slice of the pie? No, we can’t. I don’t agree that it is inherently unfair that a CEO should make 300X more than a janitor. “He makes more than me - no fair!!” is not the end of a debate. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/27 "2015-06-23T20:11:14Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I think we can agree that Steve Jobs should not be a part of the discussion. Steve Jobs wasn’t hired to run Apple, he built it. Actually, he was both. He built it, was fired, and then was re-hired to run it _when it was 1 step away from bankruptcy or being sold_. I doubt more than a handful of people could have done what he did in his second career at Apple. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/28 "2015-06-23T20:13:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, we can’t. I don’t agree that it is inherently unfair that a CEO should make 300X more than a janitor. > > “He makes more than me - no fair!!” is not the end of a debate. > > Regards, > Shodan This is the crux of the issue. It’s up to the board how much they want to pay the CEO, and it isn’t money coming out of the pockets of the workers, as much as the class warriors would have you believe. If anything, the bulk of the money comes out of the shareholders (owners). And you don’t get to be CEO, usually, at those pay levels without having a track record of success (or serious political connections, like the example above with Corzine and Obama’s golfing buddy Dimon). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/29 "2015-06-23T20:13:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fine but to be clear about that smallish looking bubble at the top: > > To be in the wealthiest 1% you need to earn around [$394,000/year](http://www.forbes.com/sites/phildemuth/2013/11/25/are-you-rich-enough-the-terrible-tragedy-of-income-inequality-among-the-1/). > > So you can see near half of all wealth is really owned by the top 0.1% or 0.001%. > > Therein lies the problem. We’re talking about American CEOs. If you want to compare the average American worker to the average worker in the entire world, you’re going to find that the former is immensely wealthy by comparison. My point stands. People almost never know precisely what they are talking about when they refer to CEOs earning 300x worker pay. Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/30 "2015-06-23T20:22:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We’re talking about American CEOs. If you want to compare the average American worker to the average worker in the entire world, you’re going to find that the former is immensely wealthy by comparison. > > My point stands. People almost never know precisely what they are talking about when they refer to CEOs earning 300x worker pay. Do you disagree? I do not know what other people do or do not know. That said: > [@](#): > > The rallying cry of the Occupy Movement was that the richest 1 percent of Americans is getting richer while the rest of us struggle to get by. That’s not quite right, though. The bottom nine-tenths of the 1 Percent club have about the same slice of the national wealth pie that they had a generation ago. The gains have accrued almost exclusively to the top tenth of 1 Percenters. The richest 0.1 percent of the American population has rebuilt its share of wealth back to where it was in the Roaring Twenties. And the richest 0.01 percent’s share has grown even more rapidly, quadrupling since the eve of the Reagan Revolution. > > SOURCE: [Top Tenth of 1 Percenters Reaps All the Riches - Bloomberg](http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-04-03/top-tenth-of-1-percenters-reaps-all-the-riches) There is a graph in that article that notes the top 0.01% of Americans control wealth equal to the bottom 2/3 of all Americans. So I think my point still stands. As small as the slice looks at the top in your citation it is anything but a small slice and that is where the problem lies. Your citation just notes it is a relatively few people doing it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/31 "2015-06-23T20:28:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know what other people do or do not know. > > That said: > > There is a graph in that article that notes the top 0.01% of Americans control wealth equal to the bottom 2/3 of all Americans. > > So I think my point still stands. As small as the slice looks at the top in your citation it is anything but a small slice and that is where the problem lies. Your citation just notes it is a relatively few people doing it. I don’t see what that has to do with whether or not any CEOs are worth 300x the pay of the average worker, which is what he OP is asking in this thread. Are you saying that no CEO is worth that? If not, why not? Seems to me we should start by deciding if any CEO is worth that (and I put forth one reason in my first post). From there we can move to a discussion about under what circumstances that is true. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/32 "2015-06-23T20:42:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you saying that no CEO is worth that? If not, why not? Yes I am. I work in financial media and it is fascinating that when anything goes wrong at a company the problem is anything BUT the person at the top. If the company makes money then it is all because of their brilliant leadership and they earned every dime. If we cloned Warren Buffet and populated the earth with him would they all be billionaires because they are all equally brilliant? Can you pick the CEO of any company and say, if they quit the job tomorrow, that the company would falter? If yes then, maybe, they deserve their salary. When you look how most of these companies make money it is in finance, inflating share prices through stock buybacks, mergers, layoffs and lobbying for protection. Rarely are they innovating and producing. [Disney recently fired a bunch of tech workers from their jobs, hired foreign workers and had the laid off workers train their replacements.](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0) They are using the [H-1B visa program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa) which allows foreign workers. Funny how congress ties itself in knot over immigration reform but this kind of immigrant worker is just peachy with them. Yet [Disney’s profits surged 22% in fiscal 2014.](http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/record-earnings-disney-profits-surge-22-in-fiscal-2014-1201349798/) > [@](#): > > With the good times continuing to roll at Disney, CEO Robert Iger has cashed in some of his stock in the company, taking in some $21.7 million by selling 200,000 shares, according to an official filing. > > Iger continues to hold more than 1.1 million shares in the entertainment conglomerate, whose shares recently reached an all-time high. > > SOURCE: [Disney CEO Robert Iger Sells $21.7 Million in Stock](http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/disney-ceo-robert-iger-sells-21-7-million-stock-1201496132/) Can you see why the OP might have room to be upset at things like this? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/33 "2015-06-23T20:46:35Z")
> [@Dibbs](#): > > But the “factors” need to be scrutinized and then tossed. How do you know we can toss them before we scrutinize them? Further, what factors do you think are in play? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/34 "2015-06-23T20:48:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I work in financial media and it is fascinating that when anything goes wrong at a company the problem is anything BUT the person at the top. If the company makes money then it is all because of their brilliant leadership and they earned every dime. Frame it, hang it, /close thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/35 "2015-06-23T21:03:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yes I am. > > I work in financial media and it is fascinating that when anything goes wrong at a company the problem is anything BUT the person at the top. If the company makes money then it is all because of their brilliant leadership and they earned every dime. Cool story, bro. But meaningless. I can tell a story about a CEO who takes responsibility for all the bad stuff, too. But that would also be meaningless. > [@](#): > > If we cloned Warren Buffet and populated the earth with him would they all be billionaires because they are all equally brilliant? Are you saying a CEO is only worth his pay if he could be cloned and that the clone could repeat the success of the parent? If not, I fail to see your point. > [@](#): > > Can you pick the CEO of any company and say, if they quit the job tomorrow, that the company would falter? If yes then, maybe, they deserve their salary. First of all, most companies would probably falter if the CEO quit and no one else replaced him or her. So that just says you need to find another good CEO. But I would not say that a CEO is worth mega-bucks just to make sure a company doesn’t “falter”, so that doesn’t prove anything. As noted in my first post, a CEO has the ability to drastically affect share price. If he does a good enough job, $12M/year is a fraction of the return he’s generated for shareholders. It’s less than what you pay your mutual fund manager, percentage wise, to perform half that well. Finally, I don’t need to pick shit. It’s your argument. If you think every corporations could lose their CEO tomorrow and not falter, you prove it. Start with Apple and Exxon and work your way down. Hint: It’s a ridiculous hypothetical that no one could prove either way. > [@](#): > > When you look how most of these companies make money it is in finance, inflating share prices through stock buybacks, mergers, layoffs and lobbying for protection. Rarely are they innovating and producing. First of all, I don’t accept that. But even if I did, who cares what “most companies” do. Your claim is that no CEO is worth 300x the pay of the average worker. Not one single CEO anywhere. > [@](#): > > [Disney recently fired a bunch of tech workers from their jobs, hired foreign workers and had the laid off workers train their replacements.](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0) They are using the [H-1B visa program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa) which allows foreign workers. Funny how congress ties itself in knot over immigration reform but this kind of immigrant worker is just peachy with them. > > Yet [Disney’s profits surged 22% in fiscal 2014.](http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/record-earnings-disney-profits-surge-22-in-fiscal-2014-1201349798/) > > Can you see why the OP might have room to be upset at things like this? I can’t see what that has to do with whether or not any CEOs are worth 300x the pay of the average worker. That’s a different debate. You seem to think that if you can find some CEO somewhere who is not worth his pay that you have proven no CEO anywhere is worth his pay. Doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/36 "2015-06-23T21:04:03Z")
Propping up short term stock prices at the expense of long term company value, what could go wrong? I am vaguely aware that some other countries have laws and corporate governance structures to try to prevent such examples of circle jerking, but the chances of them being implemented here are basically 0%. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/37 "2015-06-23T21:24:36Z")
Just to be clear, I’m sure there are many CEOs that, because of the cozy relationship they have with the BoD, get pay packages beyond what they should. That’s a problem we should try to fix. But the idea that all CEOs sit around rolling the dice and dodging responsibility is a cartoonish view not even worthy of debate. Some of us are trying to help the OP understand the economics of CEO pay. If he wants this to be just a CEO-bashfest, then fine. Let’s have the mods move this to the Pit and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/38 "2015-06-23T22:06:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Cool story, bro. But meaningless. I can tell a story about a CEO who takes responsibility for all the bad stuff, too. But that would also be meaningless. Want to make a bet on who can come up with more Fortune 500 CEOs dodging blame instead of accepting responsibility? Are you seriously suggesting the two are even remotely close? I have no doubt you could find a few cases of it but it is not the norm for that group. > [@](#): > > Are you saying a CEO is only worth his pay if he could be cloned and that the clone could repeat the success of the parent? If not, I fail to see your point. Clone may be not quite what I was going for. Imagine we make one billion copies of Warren Buffet. All with identical everything including experiences and knowledge. Do they all deserve to be billionaires? Or would happen that there would be a really sharp guy working in accounting who could do as well as the CEO? He just can’t because there are a finite number of jobs at that level. > [@](#): > > First of all, most companies would probably falter if the CEO quit and no one else replaced him or her. So that just says you need to find another good CEO. But I would not say that a CEO is worth mega-bucks just to make sure a company doesn’t “falter”, so that doesn’t prove anything. As noted in my first post, a CEO has the ability to drastically affect share price. If he does a good enough job, $12M/year is a fraction of the return he’s generated for shareholders. It’s less than what you pay your mutual fund manager, percentage wise, to perform half that well. > > Finally, I don’t need to pick shit. It’s your argument. If you think every corporations could lose their CEO tomorrow and not falter, you prove it. Start with Apple and Exxon and work your way down. Hint: It’s a ridiculous hypothetical that no one could prove either way. I’m not going to find examples that undermine my point for you and of course someone will replace them. THAT IS THE POINT! Same as a lot of people can be a janitor so it does not pay a lot so too can a lot of people sit in the CEO’s chair. I am not saying any person can do it but that there are plenty who can. Here is a [Google search of CEOs who have died (with related searches at the bottom)](https://www.google.com/search?q=ceo+dies&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8). As far as I can tell none of their companies faltered. I think dying amounts to about the same as quitting for this purpose. > [@](#): > > First of all, I don’t accept that. But even if I did, who cares what “most companies” do. Your claim is that no CEO is worth 300x the pay of the average worker. Not one single CEO anywhere. I am sure there are examples of CEOs worth their weight in gold. Same as we have seen some truly outstanding generals and political leaders in the past. I maintain most of them are not outstanding and at best competent and do NOT deserve 300x the average salary. Those few standouts sure…they deserve it and maybe then some but they are a rare breed. ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/39 "2015-06-23T22:46:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Instead of fuming, why not join them? Go to business school, graduate, play the corporate game - easy money! Terr. I’m an old geezer. Plus, my sense of fairness and compassion wouldn’t let me go down that road even if I had the smarts required.:o ---
**Author:** ![Dibbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dibbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dibbs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259/40 "2015-06-23T22:56:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that what you think Steve Jobs did while he was CEO of Apple? If so, then I don’t think any further discussion will be fruitful. Not so fast! Jobs CREATED (along with that other guy) the company. These other type of CEOs are scoundrels that might have gotten their sweet jobs via black candles and pentagrams … for all I know. It’s one thing to create a company, it’s another to step in and do a little tweak here and there, throw around a few big words to make it look like you know what you’re doing … before squeezing the company dry and then heading off for Maui! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ceos-pay-300-times-regular-folks/723259.md?page=3)