# CERN sued by European Court of Human Rights over Large Hadron Collider **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828 "2008-09-03T05:22:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/21 "2008-09-03T21:57:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Does this change anyone’s mind about this device or are you still certain of its safety? No and yes. In that order. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/22 "2008-09-03T21:58:41Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Or ignorant. Take your pick. I’m guessing greedy with a side of ignorance and nice, hot cup of stupid. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/23 "2008-09-03T22:10:45Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Science and ethics are _not inherently connected_ and have frequently been totally divorced from one another. This is why I do NOT put blind trust in any scientists and certainly not the ones involved with the LHC. Some peoples’ egos are surely huge enough that they would have no problem risking the destruction of the planet. Well, if it’s really a giant doomsday device that could destroy the world, then we could send in James Bond. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/24 "2008-09-04T02:00:34Z")
If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/25 "2008-09-04T02:06:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. Since the rules of this forum prevent me from expressing the full measure of my opinion of this post: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/26 "2008-09-04T02:08:35Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Well obviously they don’t _think_ they’re going to destroy the world. But the Nazi scientists didn’t think they were going to get caught - they assumed that Germany would win the war and take over the world and they would be made heroes. Again, these aren’t comparable assumptions. The scientists don’t think they’ll destroy the world based on their own knowledge of their field. The views of the Nazi doctors were based on deeply unscientific bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/27 "2008-09-04T04:44:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. [Put your money where your mouth is.](http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm) Also, [Wendell Wagner](http://newsbiscuit.com/article/large-hadron-collider-may-destroy-universe-say-stupid-people-317) would welcome your support. Filing nuisance suits around the world isn’t a cheap endeavor, you know. On the other hand, you might care to educate yourself on the issue, in which case you would discover that the conditions created by the LHC are seen on Earth due to high energy cosmic radiation on a frequent basis, and at least have not yet resulted in any spectacular implosions. But let this not interfere with the _Dr. Who_-esque interpretation of natural phenomenon. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/28 "2008-09-04T04:54:46Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. It’s taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/29 "2008-09-04T05:08:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. Luddites are _so_ 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/30 "2008-09-04T05:12:37Z")
> [@dogbutler](#): > > Nonsense! I run my LHC all the time and I dont get sucked into a b █ Could someone drive by **dogbutler** ’s house and see if he’s okay? If it’s really, really dark there, don’t get too close. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/31 "2008-09-04T05:17:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Also, [Wendell Wagner](http://newsbiscuit.com/article/large-hadron-collider-may-destroy-universe-say-stupid-people-317) would welcome your support. Walter Wagner, you mean? Where did this whole idea that the LHC might destroy the world start? It doesn’t seem to be something the scientists who know what they’re talking about feel there is any credible reason to suspect. So then, who first hypothesized it on what airy grounds? (ETA: Apparently, from Walter Wagner? I assumed it was a made up name for the joke article, but now I see he is a real person) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/32 "2008-09-04T06:01:33Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. Do you even own a pair of wooden shoes? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/33 "2008-09-04T06:14:55Z")
This is all a big joke to you guys - but you have to realize this shit has been giving me very serious anxiety for days now. A lot of people in threads about this topic make flip remarks such as “well, if the world is destroyed, you’ll be dead, so you won’t care about it!” By this same logic, it’s alright for me to come over to some random person’s house and kill him because, you know, he won’t care about it cause he’ll be dead. I really wouldn’t give a shit if the risk of the LHC was only that it might explode and kill all the people working on it or near it - it’s the fact that it might kill _me_, and what can I do about it besides write on this board? I can’t stop it, so I just have to accept it. It’s bullshit. I wrote a note about this on Facebook - one of my friends commented: “if only we can terraform a planet just enough to house small scientist crews, THEN they could blow the shit out of themselves (or be enlightened by their findings) without taking 6.5 billion people with them if they fail.” ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/34 "2008-09-04T06:22:43Z")
Look, **Argent Towers** , I feel your dread too–really, I do. But from what I gather about the whole thing, [ul] [li]they’ve already done two half-tests,[/li][li]it’s the same level of energy we’re bombarded with every day and we haven’t imploded yet,[/li][li]it’ll be over in less than a microsecond anyways (10 to the power of -26 or something, right?)[/li][/ul] So I’m telling myself not to worry. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/35 "2008-09-04T06:30:31Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there were a group of people planning to sabotage the LHC and destroy parts of its machinery so it will not function, I would back them fully. I would donate all my money to them. Allright, I’m planning to do that. I can take Paypal or money order. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/36 "2008-09-04T06:34:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > A lot of people in threads about this topic make flip remarks such as “well, if the world is destroyed, you’ll be dead, so you won’t care about it!” By this same logic, it’s alright for me to come over to some random person’s house and kill him because, you know, he won’t care about it cause he’ll be dead. Not quite. It’s like _saying_ you’re going to come over to some random person’s house and kill them _in an impossible manner_. > [@](#): > > I really wouldn’t give a shit if the risk of the LHC was only that it might explode and kill all the people working on it or near it - it’s the fact that it might kill _me_, and what can I do about it besides write on this board? Paranoid beliefs =/= fact. > [@](#): > > I wrote a note about this on Facebook - one of my friends commented: > > “if only we can terraform a planet just enough to house small scientist crews, THEN they could blow the shit out of themselves (or be enlightened by their findings) without taking 6.5 billion people with them if they fail.” So you found someone on Facebook who is similarly misinformed. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/37 "2008-09-04T06:35:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This is all a big joke to you guys - but you have to realize this shit has been giving me very serious anxiety for days now. “But - and I am only saying that because I care - there’s a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/38 "2008-09-04T06:38:11Z")
I haven’t smoked a cigarette in three weeks and you have no idea how bad this thing is making me want one. And half a bottle of whiskey. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/39 "2008-09-04T07:15:56Z")
Argent, you’re a lucky guy. I had this moment when I was six or seven, and realized what the Cold War meant. And that I lived between a nuclear plant and Target Number Two for the Russians. (Cheyenne, then NYC. You want to keep DC… you need someone to communicate with.) People have been trying, more or less, to kill me and those around me, since before I was born. Not in any specific sense, just because of who I am and where I live. This is life. Kind of a pisser, ain’t it? Anything can kill me. I work on a street known as the ‘Boulevard of Death’. I was two blocks from the courthouse when they pronounced the Sean Bell verdict. And that’s just the obvious stuff. This is life. Life is not _safe_. This is why you have to try to do risk analysis. And the risk analysis says that the chance of the LHC actually killing us all is pretty damn bad, because in order to do it, quite a few things we think to be correct would be wrong. Further, we’re pretty sure they’re not wrong, because we’re pretty sure the things we’re trying to do with the LHC happen in nature on an irregular basis. It’s like the ‘Atomic Bomb might ignite the atmosphere’ thing. Yeah, it _might_ have. If certain theories were correct. But, uh, they weren’t, and everyone was pretty sure they weren’t. We’re also pretty sure that unaided human flight isn’t anything that’s going to happen anytime soon. Of course, one can’t be completely sure of anything. That’s why it’s science and not religion. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828/40 "2008-09-04T07:28:43Z")
I get what you’re trying to say, but there are different levels of “pretty sure.” If it’s the same “pretty sure” about the LHC destroying the planet, and the likelihood of humans being able to fly - well, you see where I’m going. They had better be pretty fucking sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cern-sued-by-european-court-of-human-rights-over-large-hadron-collider/461828.md?page=3)