# Cesario, you're awfully sanctimonious for a pedophile **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973 "2009-09-29T14:48:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/742 "2009-10-13T17:28:57Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > That said, it’s fun to note that under the current wishy-washy rules, the SDMB should be perfectly fine with me starting a series of threads coyly stating that I’ve never killed a child-rapist and under the current laws, I never would, but o gosh! wouldn’t it be nice if we could change the laws to allow us to execute child-rapists, vigilante-style. I could even pop into death-penalty threads and propose that child-rapists be shot. Frankly speaking, I don’t see anything wrong with proposing that as a topic of discussion if your intent was not simply to snipe at Cesario and you had a little more substance to your argument then ‘wouldn’t it be nice’. Like, say you proposed vigilante justice for child rapists. But I’m not a mod or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/743 "2009-10-13T17:37:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Sorry I’m late to the party, but I just wanted to agree in general with this. I do think it’s different ages for different people, but in general, a child who does not have the emotional development of an adult is incapable of giving meaningful consent. That’s why libertarianism forbids acting out pedophilia — because there is no meaningful consent. It is a coercion upon the child. I didn’t have the emotional development of an adult even at 22 years old. Does that mean my wife raped me? I was certainly able to “consent” to sex much earlier than that. I don’t think laws against pedophilia are about rape, or consent. They’re about protecting kids from adults who want to abuse them. Nobody would prosecute anyone if two ten year old kids sneaked out of the house and had sex, even though neither of them are allowed to consent to sex. I can certainly imagine scenarios in which an adult can have sex with a kid without coercion, but that doesn’t make it any less creepy. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/744 "2009-10-13T17:39:09Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I think it’s possible to change the societal harm without eliminating AoC laws. I agree. I’m not to sure of exact methodology, but I do agree. I don’t think you’re ever going to eliminate all of it, but then, there’s harm even in societal attitudes to adult sex, so it’s clearly a thornier problem than just the AoC. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that there are legitimate age lines and as such, the AoC laws make sense. Here, I disagree. I do think there are legitimate developmental milestones that could be set up much easier than a psych test (for instance, things like pre-verbal, physical indicators like menstruation, testosterone levels etc) but there’s no direct age link for any of these. But like I said before, I’m OK with sensible AoC levels \*(which, IMO, 18 _isn’t_) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/745 "2009-10-13T17:45:25Z")
Alright. I’m done hurling epithets. It’s not going anywhere anyway. And I’m sick of trying to defend against “oh but it’s just a theory.” It’s a fool’s game. Here’s the thing … if Cesario had come here and announced that he was pedophile, and that he struggled with it, that he was seeking help with it, that he wished he could change it, that he does everything he can to avoid tempting situations, etc., I’d never have said word one. But instead, he is trying to make everyone agree with him that his urges should be legitimized under the proper circumstances. That is utterly abhorrant to me and I refuse to dignify it with debate. If you feel you must host these “what-ifs” pretending that it has nothing to do with actual harm being done, then you have my pity as much as Cesario does. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/746 "2009-10-13T19:32:29Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > But instead, he is trying to make everyone agree with him that his urges should be legitimized under the proper circumstances. That is utterly abhorrant to me and I refuse to dignify it with debate. To my knowledge he has been completely unsuccessful in this endeavor. The act is abhorrant to me as well and I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think differently. As to the debate - I don’t think he’s going to win any converts, however I think the topic is worth a discussion, as important tangents will be brought up and positions will be rationally justified. That said, I don’t think the board should be overwhelmed with such discussions. I think they should run their course and die out. As of right now, my discussion with Cesario has almost run it’s course. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/747 "2009-10-13T20:17:28Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, there are horrible parents, I’m aware. But okay, a good, normal parent–I’d like to say most parents, even. Wouldn’t they freak out if some pedobear came up to them with this test? The only people you’re going to get for this test are people whose parents probably don’t care if they’re abused. Kids who in fact need the most protection from people like that–pedophiles often tend to target victims who feel unloved or unwanted. There’s just no possible scenario where testing a kid to have sex with them isn’t disgusting and skeevy. Here’s a question. What if your hypothetical 9 year old or 11 year old came up to you with this test, which he’d provably found out about in some totally legit way (from, say, the State Department of Consent Licensing website), and asked to take it because s/he was curious about sex and thought they were mature enough? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/748 "2009-10-14T01:50:51Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > He also loopholes the idea that it’s ok for people who fail the test to rape children who haven’t taken the test. I don’t remember that one (his posts are so freaking hard to search through, no matter how many times we’ve pointed this out to him) Oh, and **Meatros** – I’m impressed. Very impressed. Let’s hope **Cesario** listens. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/749 "2009-10-14T01:58:15Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You gotta admire someone who can type as much as he does only using one hand. > > Regards, > Shodan That made me smirk. I am SO going to hell now. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/750 "2009-10-14T02:11:25Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I am SO going to hell now. [In a handbasket?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwfbLH1fz1s) ---
**Author:** ![MoodIndigo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@MoodIndigo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoodIndigo1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/751 "2009-10-14T05:11:05Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I think it’s really wonderful when people defend pedos. Nobody here has defended pedos, as you say. They were simply attempting to discuss and clarify, or often rebut, Cesario’s claims. I guess the problem with that is that they were not hurling invective or threats. This thread almost made me decide to quit SDMB, and not because of Cesario, because of the stupidity of the pack of hounds. ---
**Author:** ![Claude\_Remains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Claude\_Remains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claude_Remains)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/752 "2009-10-14T05:54:16Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > **Fenris** , **Jack Batty** , **Mr Happy** , **leander** : > > If you had the opportunity, would you kill Cesario? This thread has paved the way to some fucked up dreams. And yes,… ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/753 "2009-10-14T08:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think laws against pedophilia are about rape, or consent. They’re about protecting kids from adults who want to abuse them. Nobody would prosecute anyone if two ten year old kids sneaked out of the house and had sex, even though neither of them are allowed to consent to sex. I can certainly imagine scenarios in which an adult can have sex with a kid without coercion, but that doesn’t make it any less creepy. Moiser exactly!!! There ARE grey area scenarios…I still feel kind of oogie that I was in love with a girl who was a teenager. (granted I LOVE Hannah dearly and she was very mature for her age…but still…so many people I know have changed so drasticly emotionally (and relationship skills wise) from when they were teens) Hell even with the fact that some teens are mature enough to have a romantic relationship with a twentysomething, there are still PLENTY of cases where a twenty-something dude has a young teen girl as his girlfriend so he can take advantage of her. (ie the girl is kind of “doofy” about what she can and can’t do in a boyfriend-girlfriend reationship) We can debate on and on about “consent” but the fact of the matter is that pedos are predators. They THINK that kids can consent. But seriously…ALL the pedos care about is THEIR orgasm and THEIR pleasure. A honest to god romantic realtionship between a kid and an adult? What I’m picturing sounds like some sort of weird SNL skit. Kid" Oh, I love this new PlaySkool toy! You know Saturday Morning cartoons? …prattles on about various and sundry kid stuff Adult " _I want a beer_/some pinot gringo…starts thinking about adult stuff. It’s not a mutually consening relationship. It’s an adult taking advantage of a little kid! A common theme on pedo boards is kids “innocence” They are taking advantage of that “kids’ innocence!”!!! That’s just so wrong on so many levels. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/754 "2009-10-14T10:08:52Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > ALL the pedos care about is THEIR orgasm and THEIR pleasure. You keep stating this as a fact. Got any cites to back it up? ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/755 "2009-10-14T10:55:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You keep stating this as a fact. Got any cites to back it up? I know this will sound like begging the question, but if a person really cared about the child, they wouldn’t be fucking them in the first place. The number of people who have suffered trauma from being molested as children should _at the very least_ stop someone who genuinely cared about the child from engaging in sexual intercourse with them. That said, I’m sure there are a great deal of people who molest children who _think_ they care about them. However, I dare say that’s an extension of the delusion that also credits the child with a fully-developed sense of self. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/756 "2009-10-14T12:17:12Z")
> [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](#): > > We can debate on and on about “consent” but the fact of the matter is that pedos are predators. They THINK that kids can consent. But seriously…ALL the pedos care about is THEIR orgasm and THEIR pleasure. > A honest to god romantic realtionship between a kid and an adult? > What I’m picturing sounds like some sort of weird SNL skit. > Kid" Oh, I love this new PlaySkool toy! You know Saturday Morning cartoons? …prattles on about various and sundry kid stuff > Adult " _I want a beer_/some pinot gringo…starts thinking about adult stuff. > It’s not a mutually consening relationship. It’s an adult taking advantage of a little kid! A common theme on pedo boards is kids “innocence” > They are taking advantage of that “kids’ innocence!”!!! That’s just so wrong on so many levels. I can’t comment on the mindset of Pedo’s, what they want or don’t want and what they value or don’t. What you say seems to be conventional wisdom (Pedo’s are selfishly only concerned about their ability to get off) and I don’t know how much of it is actually true. That said, you are pointing to something that I think is very important in this discussion and something that I think is very hard to nail down: **What constitutes a balanced and loving relationship.** On the face of it, I’m not sure that even in an ideal scenario the adult-child relationship can be a balanced and loving one. I freely confess this could be because I’m ignorant of such relationships and that I base my opinion on little more then how things seem to me. One thing that I do know is that attraction is not enough to constitute a balanced and loving relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/757 "2009-10-14T12:19:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t remember that one (his posts are so freaking hard to search through, no matter how many times we’ve pointed this out to him) > > Oh, and **Meatros** – I’m impressed. Very impressed. Let’s hope **Cesario** listens. Thanks, I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/758 "2009-10-14T12:23:33Z")
Cesario - I realize that our conversation is rather long (the last post I had to break up because it went over the board limits) and I think we are getting to the point where nothing new will be said (I could be wrong), but a question occurred to me: If you could change your orientation, so that you were attracted solely to adults, would you? Please explain your reasoning either way - I have my suspicions as to what you would do (and they do not stem from guilt or anything like that), but my suspicions and reality are often different. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/759 "2009-10-14T12:54:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I agree. I’m not to sure of exact methodology, but I do agree. I don’t think you’re ever going to eliminate all of it, but then, there’s harm even in societal attitudes to adult sex, so it’s clearly a thornier problem than just the AoC. Agreed. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Here, I disagree. I do think there are legitimate developmental milestones that could be set up much easier than a psych test (for instance, things like pre-verbal, physical indicators like menstruation, testosterone levels etc) but there’s no direct age link for any of these. But like I said before, I’m OK with sensible AoC levels \*(which, IMO, 18 isn’t) To be perfectly frank, you are right that there are developmental milestones and they do not correlate exactly with age. There are shades of gray, as I’ve said. I think the overwhelming majority of 10 year olds have not gone through puberty and do not have the knowledge or desire for consensual sex. I’d almost go so far as to say ‘all’, but for the sake of discussion I’ll grant the possibility that there could be an outlier out there - some genetic anomaly with a great intelligence. Do we adjust the laws so that the anomaly can have sex earlier? What’s wrong with having the anomaly wait until they are older? I think that if the anomaly has such a strong desire for sex and absolutely must engage in the activity _right now_ then there might be other psychological issues involved. So why not let them wait, even if they hypothetically could handle it at an earlier age? The only person I can conceivably view as being hurt by that arrangement is an adult pedophile - but if the pedophile can’t wait either, then what does that say about their relationship to begin with? I think we are on the same page - I’m not sure that 18 is a sensible AoC, but I think it makes sense to have AoC laws. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/760 "2009-10-14T14:20:53Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I think the overwhelming majority of 10 year olds have not gone through puberty and do not have the knowledge or desire for consensual sex. I agree, although I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between puberty and desire for sex. But be aware that the age of puberty is [creeping lower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty#Diagnostic_criteria) all the time (in the Western world, at least). ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973/761 "2009-10-14T14:43:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I agree, although I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between puberty and desire for sex. But be aware that the age of puberty is [creeping lower](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty#Diagnostic_criteria) all the time (in the Western world, at least). That’s interesting actually - I hadn’t realized that it was that early. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cesario-youre-awfully-sanctimonious-for-a-pedophile/511973.md?page=39)