# Chai tea...wtf is it supposed to be? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 18, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669 "2014-05-18T02:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/61 "2014-05-18T16:52:14Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Heh, and, do you think she’s incorrect? No. It sounds awkward to my ear, because that’s not how the term is used where I live, but I don’t expect the nuances of my culture to be observed universally. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/62 "2014-05-18T17:02:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No. It sounds awkward to my ear, because that’s not how the term is used where I live, but I don’t expect the nuances of my culture to be observed universally. Are you a Spanish speaker? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/63 "2014-05-18T17:04:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > A similar example to the OP is the Hungarian word “baconszallona,” which is the English word “bacon” followed by the Hungarian word “szalonna,” which means “bacon.” So, like “chai tea,” you have the same sort of redundancy. But it refers to basically “streaky bacon.” Here’s one in English from up thread. And English word made redundant with a German word. Should I care about that? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/64 "2014-05-18T17:17:11Z")
This happens all the time: > **[List of tautological place names](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names)** > > A place name is tautological if two differently sounding parts of it are synonymous. This often occurs when a name from one language is imported into another and a standard descriptor is added on from the second language. Thus, for example, New Zealand's Mount Maunganui is tautological since "maunganui" is Māori for "great mountain". The following is a list of place names often used tautologically, plus the languages from which the non-English name elements have come. > Tautological place names ar... > **[Pleonasm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleonasm)** > > Pleonasm (/ˈpliː.əˌnæzəm/; from Ancient Greek πλεονασμός (pleonasmós), from πλέον (pléon) 'to be in excess') is redundancy in linguistic expression, such as "black darkness" or "burning fire". It is a manifestation of tautology by traditional rhetorical criteria and might be considered a fault of style. Pleonasm may also be used for emphasis, or because the phrase has become established in a certain form. Tautology and pleonasm are not consistently differentiated in literature. > Most often, p... > **[RAS syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome)** > > RAS syndrome (where "RAS" stands for "redundant acronym syndrome", making the phrase "RAS syndrome" homological) is the redundant use of one or more of the words that make up an acronym (or other initialism) in conjunction with the abbreviated form. This means, in effect, repeating one or more words from the acronym. Three common examples are "PIN number" / "VIN number" (the "N" in PIN and VIN stands for "number") and "ATM machine" (the "M" in ATM stands for "machine"). The term RAS syndrome wa... ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/65 "2014-05-18T17:21:44Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Are you a Spanish speaker? Just a few words and phrases. My father’s fluent, though, as are his two brothers. And I live in California, which is effectively a bilingual state. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/66 "2014-05-18T17:22:54Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Here’s one in English from up thread. And English word made redundant with a German word. Should I care about that? Do you happen to come across it frequently? Do you understand and use both languages? I’m saying that there’s a pretty large intersection between Hindi and English speakers(and apparently, chai is a pretty universal word for tea, so I’m limiting matters by saying Hindi here). The other situations aren’t strictly comparable. I don’t know how to present this, in the expectation that the majority of you are monolingual. I consider two languages to be my first language, as do millions of my countrymen(Hindi and English are the two official languages of India). So I have a stake in both languages. When you, in ignorance, use a word from one of these in a nonsensical way in the other, I think I have a legitimate position in saying that it’s ignorant and nonsensical, and should be scotched. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/67 "2014-05-18T17:25:14Z")
Well, then it guess you’ve narrowed the conditions down pretty tight to apply to you and this situation. All I know is I’ve never heard an Italian speaker complain of pizza pie, but I’m sure there’s a reason that situation also isn’t the same. It bugs you. Ok. Sorry it does. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/68 "2014-05-18T17:30:24Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > All I know is I’ve never heard an Italian speaker complain of pizza pie, but I’m sure there’s a reason that situation also isn’t the same. Do you know many bilingual Italians? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/69 "2014-05-18T17:34:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Just a few words and phrases. My father’s fluent, though, as are his two brothers. And I live in California, which is effectively a bilingual state. It’s my expectation that a Bilingual speaker would consider Salsa sauce silly/wrong. I could be mistaken of course. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/70 "2014-05-18T17:35:54Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Do you know many bilingual Italians? Seriously? In the New York metro area (like Brooklyn!)? 100s, at least. The best man in my wedding was born and raised in Mumbai. Came here for grad school. I gotta ask him his take on this… ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/71 "2014-05-18T17:41:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Seriously? In the New York metro area (like Brooklyn!)? 100s, at least. Did they come across the meaning of pizza as America thinks of it(i.e born and raised there)? In which case, they would have no reason to think of pizza pie as odd. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/72 "2014-05-18T17:41:39Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > When you, in ignorance, use a word from one of these in a nonsensical way in the other, I think I have a legitimate position in saying that it’s ignorant and nonsensical, and should be scotched. Well, that’s where you’re wrong. You don’t have a legitimate right to say that a particular word is being used “wrong.” Not in English. Not in Hindi, either. That’s not how languages work. Languages are not created by dictate, they’re an emergent property of human social interaction. Saying that it’s wrong for a word to have a certain meaning is a bit like saying the tide is wrong for eroding a cliffside. “Correct” or “incorrect” doesn’t enter into it. It’s just something that happens. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/73 "2014-05-18T17:42:24Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > The best man in my wedding was born and raised in Mumbai. Came here for grad school. I gotta ask him his take on this… Cool. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/74 "2014-05-18T17:43:46Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Did they come across the meaning of pizza as America thinks of it(i.e born and raised there)? In which case, they would have no reason to think of pizza pie as odd. So fluent is no longer enough to have their opinion be valid. Now they must be raised in the other country too. At what age would immigrating here be acceptable? :rolleyes: As my mom would say, Oy gevalt. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/75 "2014-05-18T17:43:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, that’s where you’re wrong. You don’t have a legitimate right to say that a particular word is being used “wrong.” Not in English. Not in Hindi, either. That’s not how languages work. Languages are not created by dictate, they’re an emergent property of human social interaction. Saying that it’s wrong for a word to have a certain meaning is a bit like saying the tide is wrong for eroding a cliffside. “Correct” or “incorrect” doesn’t enter into it. It’s just something that happens. And arguing for or against it being right or wrong is part of how it ‘happens’. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/76 "2014-05-18T19:03:51Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > In parts of the south of England, particularly London, we sometimes call tea “cha”. Does she say “chai” (rhymes with fly) or “cha” (with a long a as in “ah”)? No, she definitely says “chai” - rhymes with “fly”. She did live in London for a time but was born and raised in Great Yarmouth (actually Gorleston-on-Sea). ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/77 "2014-05-18T19:11:50Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > And arguing for or against it being right or wrong is part of how it ‘happens’. Not really, no. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/78 "2014-05-18T19:41:03Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Of course not, but next time you’re ordering it, if you could make fun of Starbucks to your friends for being silly enough to call something on their menu ‘tea tea’, I’d be much obliged 🙂 And, similarly, “kielbasa sausage” should sound stupid to my native Polish and English ears, but it doesn’t, because I realize contextually, kieblasa in English means a type of smoked Polish sausage. It’s not really dumb to me, because we are talking about two different contexts. English words have been similarly bastardized and corrupted in other languages, and I gave you an example that’s pretty much directly analogous to yours in Hungarian going the other way (English word into Hungarian.) It never sounded silly to me in that context, either, even though the word translates basically into “bacon bacon.” It doesn’t sound all that weird to me when borrowing words and phrases from other languages that if there is a type of item that is associated strongly with that culture, the use of the generic word in that language can be taken to mean the more specific “famous” item in the target language. Like in the Polish community, they were famous for their smoked sausages, so the Polish word generically for sausage, _kielbasa_, got associated with that specific sausage. Now, “chai” and its various spelling variants (like čaj in a number of Slavic languages) simply means “tea.” Had, say, the Croatians been known for some interesting and uniquely spiced tea and not the Indian subcontinent, it would not have surprised me that English speakers would have glommed on to that word and used it to refer to this special Croatia tea, even though the word is generic in Croatian. It’s not a matter of cultural or linguistic imperialism or any nonsense such as that. It’s just natural linguistic drift, and happens in other languages in all directions. I know I’ve seen more examples of this in Hungarian and Polish, but I’m blanking on them right now. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/79 "2014-05-18T19:52:49Z")
And you also see it going the other way, from specific in one language to general in another. The immediate example that comes to mind has to do with brand-names, but one of the general words in Polish for gym shoes/sneakers is “adidasy,” after, obviously “Adidas.” But then you get such seeming nonsense as [“adidasy Nike”](http://sprzedajemy.pl/adidasy-nike,852136), literally, “Nike Adidases”. Languages are funny that way. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669/80 "2014-05-18T20:04:03Z")
If three people at the table order “cha” in sequence, do you then have to get up and dance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chai-tea-wtf-is-it-supposed-to-be/688669.md?page=5)