Chai tea...wtf is it supposed to be?

[Inner_Stickler]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

I do think English has a long history of appropriating foreign words and adapting them. Some languages are much more resistant- French for example. English seems to revel in adopting foreign words. Makes things interesting.

If you’re thinking of the Academie Francaise, I feel I should point out that it exists almost entirely as a way of honoring distinguished members of French literary society. Their declarations regarding what is ‘proper’ french are not binding on anything except possibly the government and even then I think the government has a fair bit of leeway. It’s been 20 years since the last volume of their dictionary was released. This is not a group overly concerned with linguistic governance and even if it were, the trends show that top-down authoritarianism fails spectacularly at setting the pace and direction of language change.

English has the appearance of a mongrel language because it is such a lingua franca. Had history turned out differently, everyone would joke about how french grammar is a whore or russian follows other languages into back alleys and steals their syntax. There’s not really anything inherent to english that makes it more accepting of foreign words than any other given language. I have heard that english’s system of suffixes make it relatively easy to coin new words (Invest>investigate>investigation>investigationally and so on) but I wouldn’t know enough to do more than speculate.

[CarnalK]

@Inner_Stickler

If you’re thinking of the Academie Francaise, I feel I should point out that it exists almost entirely as a way of honoring distinguished members of French literary society. Their declarations regarding what is ‘proper’ french are not binding on anything except possibly the government and even then I think the government has a fair bit of leeway. It’s been 20 years since the last volume of their dictionary was released. This is not a group overly concerned with linguistic governance and even if it were, the trends show that top-down authoritarianism fails spectacularly at setting the pace and direction of language change.

Where are you getting all that from? As far as I know, it’s purpose is as an authority on the language, nothing to do with honoring literary society. And as far as not publishing a dictionary recently (I don’t know how publishing a dictionary has anything to do with honoring literature), they have existed since 1635 and are currently working on only the 9th edition. 20 years is a drop in the bucket.

But Ivory may have also been thinking of Bill 101 in Quebec.

[Inner_Stickler]

@clairobscur

I must add that apart from its actual missions, being a member of the french academy has always been considered as a great honor. The members are elected for life by their peers, and usually are well-known writers. What you actually do when you’re an academician isn’t really important (a lot of academicians never attend a meeting, AFAIK) . What is important is knowing if you’ll be elected or not. Some famous writers spent their life trying unsucessfully to become academicians (Zola, for instance). I guess a lot of people would argue that the main purpose of the french academy is electing new members, which would be a kind of ultimate recognition for litterary talent. Academicians are often called “the immortals” though a lot of former members are actually totally forgotten now and some extremely famous writers never got elected or declined membership.

@clairobscur

Actually, the Academie Francaise is rarely involved in the process (it’s not like its members are actively trying to invent words. They just set the rules of use for the existing language), except when it decide to create french words in order to replace an anglo-saxon one already used. Generally without much success, like with the “courriel” mentionned above. Though sometimes, for some reason, the “official” word actually stick. I saw it happen with the “balladeur” (still masculine) which replaced the “walkman”.
By the way, the academie francaise is mainly a college of peer-elected writers, and mainly known here as such (being elected to the Academie is considered the ultimate honor by many french writers who are actively trying to get in). I mention it because it’s quite obvious that in foreign countries (or anglo-saxon countries at least) it’s mainly perceived as a “language regulation board”.

It’s also only one (though by far the most famous) amongst the “academies” (for sciences, arts, archeology, etc…), the one in charge of litterature, grammar, etc…

As far as the dictionary goes, exactly. If you let 20 years go by between two sequential volumes in an edition, by the time you get to Z, A is hilariously out of date.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@CarnalK

Where are you getting all that from? As far as I know, it’s purpose is as an authority on the language, nothing to do with honoring literary society. And as far as not publishing a dictionary recently (I don’t know how publishing a dictionary has anything to do with honoring literature), they have existed since 1635 and are currently working on only the 9th edition. 20 years is a drop in the bucket.

But Ivory may have also been thinking of Bill 101 in Quebec.

I was thinking of past measures to prevent English terms to be adopted wholesale into French- like in this article: France bans English words in bid to "protect language" - B92

I thought (and I’m truly going off old memories) that slang and overtly technical terms were being blocked. Whether the policies have any teeth, it certainly reflects a more protectionist attitude compared to English, which seeks out foreign words and eagerly hijacks them.

[Tethered_Kite]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Chai tea is highly spiced and often served sweetened and with milk or cream. Calling it chai tea is simply an English adaptation, much like saying with “au jus” or calling something a paella pan.

Masala chai - Wikipedia

CA 1960 - pizza pie.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Tethered_Kite

CA 1960 - pizza pie.

Yeah, I’ve mentioned that a bunch of times, but it was ignored as a legit example by our OP.

[wonky]

“Chai tea.” Hmph. Don’t the hoi polloi know how redundant that is?

[Superdude]

@pulykamell

The flavor she’s talking about, I suspect, is not pumpkin so much as “pumpkin pie spices,” which calls to mind pumpkin by association (you also find a lot of this in pumpkin beers. They don’t really taste like pumpkin. They taste like pumpkin pie spice.) You know, nutmeg, cinnamon, cloves, ginger. I agree, the Indian spiced tea that is known as Chai in the US and perhaps other English speaking environs does not taste like pumpkin itself at all.

Perhaps. But I don’t drink beer, nor do I eat pumpkin pie. I detest the taste.

[pulykamell]

@Superdude

Perhaps. But I don’t drink beer, nor do I eat pumpkin pie. I detest the taste.

I’m assuming that is the case, because those pumpkin pie spices are typical in the chai we are talking about (as well as other spices like cardamon–there’s a lot of variations) and you like chai.

[Tethered_Kite]

@IvoryTowerDenizen

Yeah, I’ve mentioned that a bunch of times, but it was ignored as a legit example by our OP.

Stamping foot Well, we say it is.

(Guilty of not reading, as charged. Ugh.)

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@Tethered_Kite

Stamping foot Well, we say it is.

(Guilty of not reading, as charged. Ugh.)

I was glad to see someone else bring it up!

[Ruken]

I remember a friend complaining about “challah bread.”

[Uther_Penguin]

To the OP: I would say that you have lost that fight long ago.

See here and here (German). And here (Dutch, with English and German on the backside.).

[foolsguinea]

@needscoffee

Get some salsa sauce on the side. If you’re short on cash, stop at the ATM machine first. Don’t forget your PIN number.

There are people who say “salsa sauce”? :dubious:

[Wendell_Wagner]

Here are some of the many examples of the use of the term “salsa sauce” on the Internet:

History Of Salsa Sauce - The Mexican Connection

Salsa Sauce Recipe – Mom's Mexican Recipes

Pika Salsa Sauce Recipe - Food.com

Salsa Sauce Recipe - Grit

It sounds funny to me too to say “salsa sauce,” but one of the first things you have to do to be able to objectively study language is to realize that you can’t reject an example of language use just because it’s not your own use.