# Chain stores and restaurants that make a city a "big city." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549 "2013-03-21T17:13:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/1 "2013-03-21T17:13:29Z")
I have a friend who always complains about living in a smaller city that lacks some of the amenities of a true metropolis. But his idea of sophisticated urban living does not consist of having an symphony orchestra, a major research institute, or a Fortune 500 company headquarters. Instead of that, to him a “real city” has ALL of the following: Apple Store Ikea Whole Foods (or maybe a regional equivalent) Cheesecake Factory Hard Rock Cafe. IMAX theatre My observation is that most cities in North America that have one of these have all of these - except for maybe the Hard Rock (which is more resort oriented) and maybe an Apple Store. Are there any that are missing here? And is there another set of stores that marks a similar leap from small town to mid-size city? Like Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, Applebees, or Costco? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/2 "2013-03-21T18:19:55Z")
Until recently, there was no IKEA store in New York, although they had stores on Long Island and New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/3 "2013-03-21T18:22:16Z")
There’s no Ikea in Boston either, but there’s one out in the 'burbs. It’s pretty new. Hard Rock is just in resorts? We have one here. Would Barney’s, Sack’s, or Neidless Marcup only be found in bigger cities? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/4 "2013-03-21T18:26:33Z")
Chain stores make a city? In the words of Al Einstein, “Oy vey.” Chain stores make giant heaps of cartoonitecture turds that suck the life out of local alternatives. Especially chain restaurants. Until you drive around a significant number of metropolises, or drive across some good portion of the country, it’s hard to realize how much these prepackaged, preassembled shakedown centers have changed the face of the country. If opinions have evolved to the point where an Ikea or Olive Garden “makes” a big city, it’s time for the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![steviep24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@steviep24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steviep24)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/5 "2013-03-21T18:26:49Z")
A city wouldn’t be a big city without Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/6 "2013-03-21T18:35:58Z")
I would go the opposite way. A city is only a truly big city if it has some of the chains listed but local alternatives are still more popular because it has the history and culture to support them. You can drop a mall or giant shopping center in any city but that doesn’t make it big or grown up. It is about the opposite in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/7 "2013-03-21T18:39:10Z")
Ikea’s not a good example; they’re tending to go into the suburbs instead of the big city proper. In the DFW area, the Ikea is in Frisco, and in the Austin area, it’s in Round Rock. I’d personally have said that the sign of big cities is the sustained presence of specialty shops, but that’s almost 180 degrees off from the OP’s question, since they’re going to be non-chain stores by definition. Let’s see… major metropolitan area nationwide chains… I’d say that having a shopping mall with 2-3 of the big department stores anchoring it is a good start- you’re unlikely IMO to find a mall with some combination of Nordstrom, Macy’s, Saks, or Neiman Marcus outside of a major metropolitan area. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/8 "2013-03-21T18:41:17Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > I have a friend who always complains about living in a smaller city that lacks some of the amenities of a true metropolis. But his idea of sophisticated urban living does not consist of having an symphony orchestra, a major research institute, or a Fortune 500 company headquarters. Instead of that, to him a “real city” has ALL of the following: > > Apple Store > Ikea > Whole Foods (or maybe a regional equivalent) > Cheesecake Factory > Hard Rock Cafe. > IMAX theatre > > My observation is that most cities in North America that have one of these have all of these - except for maybe the Hard Rock (which is more resort oriented) and maybe an Apple Store. Are there any that are missing here? > > And is there another set of stores that marks a similar leap from small town to mid-size city? Like Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, Applebees, or Costco? Not too many major cities have IKEAs - you need a lot of room for one of those. The only IKEA in the San Francisco area is just north of Oakland. San Francisco does have all of the others (in fact, it has three Apple stores). I might replace IKEA with Barnes & Noble in that list, although a number of B&Ns have been closed in the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/9 "2013-03-21T18:48:09Z")
The IKEA is a stupid suggestion, Here in CT New Haven has an IKEA but not the state capital of Hartford. Rochester NY doesn’t have an IKEA. In NY, Brooklyn and Long Island are the only 2 IKEA locations, suggesting that Buffalo, Binghamton, Rochester, Albany and Manhattan aren’t big cities. In Arizona, Tempe suggests that Phoenix isn’t a big city. Orlando, Sunrise and Tampa suggests that Florida is a wasteland for major cities… I would challenge by mentioning that traditionally ‘big’ cities was hinged upon population and territorial size. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/10 "2013-03-21T19:05:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d personally have said that the sign of big cities is the sustained presence of specialty shops, but that’s almost 180 degrees off from the OP’s question, since they’re going to be non-chain stores by definition. Yes. The OP question (the OP’s friend’s concept) is misguided. While big metro areas may _have_ various chains, nobody goes there _for_ the chains. Chain stores do not make or mark a great city. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/11 "2013-03-21T19:09:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Until recently, there was no IKEA store in New York, although they had stores on Long Island and New Jersey. IIRC the one in Bergen County, NJ is the only one in the US that’s closed on Sundays. This is true of just about every chain big-box store in that county. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/12 "2013-03-21T19:13:08Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Yes. The OP question (the OP’s friend’s concept) is misguided. While big metro areas may _have_ various chains, nobody goes there _for_ the chains. Chain stores do not make or mark a great city. That’s very true. But I would still expect a big city to have all or most of those. Two things we don’t have here: WalMart and Target. We have them out in the suburbs but not in the city. Is that common? Is it because real estate is too high? Not that I’m complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/13 "2013-03-21T19:31:50Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IIRC the one in Bergen County, NJ is the only one in the US that’s closed on Sundays. This is true of just about every chain big-box store in that county. There’s one in Bergen County now? I remember there was one in Elizabeth. (While driving past it on the New Jersey Turnpike, you can see Newark Airport, a big rail terminal, the highway of course and the Port of Elizabeth. It’s a vast transportation hub.) ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/14 "2013-03-21T19:34:58Z")
I think there needs to be more to the idea of a big city being big because of speciality shops and local alternatives. Maybe a number of said shops? I mean, I live in a city of 200,000 people but we have a ‘cultural’ street with the organic grocery, specialized eateries, funky import clothing shops, etc. It’s also only four blocks long. 😛 Part of it is population, too. Getting an Ikea and/or Olive Garden in Canada is a sign of finally being a big city, because they’ll only build if you have a certain population. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/15 "2013-03-21T20:03:16Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I would go the opposite way. A city is only a truly big city if it has some of the chains listed but local alternatives are still more popular because it has the history and culture to support them. This. One of the things I like about living in L.A. is that I almost never have to go in a chain store or restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/16 "2013-03-21T20:10:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > In NY, Brooklyn and Long Island are the only 2 IKEA locations, suggesting that Buffalo, Binghamton, Rochester, Albany and **Manhattan** aren’t big cities. The IKEA in Elizabeth has a free shuttle bus on weekends that takes you from Port Authority on 42nd St to the store and back. As long as they are picking you up and bringing you and your haul back for free … it’s an honorary NYC location in my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/17 "2013-03-21T21:57:55Z")
Big Cities and to a lesser extent Medium Size Cities are also known for having their slums, skid rows, homeless encampments, and gang wars. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/18 "2013-03-21T22:27:55Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > This. One of the things I like about living in L.A. is that I almost never have to go in a chain store or restaurant. This squared. As a New Yorker, now displaced, the true mark of a big city is that you can go to stores that are not in every mall in the country. New York had Macys before they expanded everywhere, and even now Macys there is a far different store from your average mall store. And there are plenty of department stores rarely seen outside. Ditto Philadelphia and Chicago. But diversity is decreasing. When we moved to Princeton there were few if any chains downtown, not they are all over. Boulder changed that way also during the time I visited there. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/19 "2013-03-21T23:17:53Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But diversity is decreasing. When we moved to Princeton there were few if any chains downtown, not they are all over. Boulder changed that way also during the time I visited there. It’s true for most cities not massive enough to support independent restaurants and retailers. I have experience with a half dozen locations, and a long, long list of beloved restaurants and stores that went under because the populace supported the chains instead. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549/20 "2013-03-21T23:46:46Z")
If you want a store-based rule of thumb, a “big city” is a city with more than one WalMart. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chain-stores-and-restaurants-that-make-a-city-a-big-city/653549.md?page=2)