Chain stores and restaurants that make a city a "big city."

[GreasyJack]

@Tamex

I think that the presence of certain chains can mean that a city has “arrived”. For example, I know that some people in Bozeman, MT were pretty excited to get an Olive Garden, which just recently opened.

This amused me, since in most places in America, no one is excited about Olive Garden anymore.

When I lived there over 20 years ago, we were constantly inundated with Red Lobster commercials. Where was the nearest Red Lobster? I have no idea. I don’t think Billings even had one then. The closest one was probably Minneapolis, about 1000 miles away. Google tells me Bozeman still doesn’t have a Red Lobster today! I bet there’s a bit pent-up demand if one ever shows up (and then they’ll find out Red Lobster sucks.)

The sticking point with Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and other chain restaurants with full bars is the absurdly dysfunctional liquor licensing laws in Montana.

There’s a quota of liquor licenses the state is supposed to maintain in each city based on population, but there were a bunch of licenses that were grandfathered in back in the 40’s when the law was passed that can be transfered. So, in practice, the licenses are just traded on the free market and in towns like Missoula and Bozeman that have grown a lot and are harder drinkin’ by virtue of being college towns, the liquor licenses are obscenely expensive. A beer and wine license goes for $100k-400k and a full liquor license is well over a million these days.

[Little_Nemo]

@Dewey_Finn

Really? Given the subject of the thread is “cities” not “states”, I didn’t think it was necessary to specify that I was referring to the City of New York and not the State of New York.

Yes, but those of us who live in New York get sensitive about the way other people treat New York City like it’s the entire state.

[bump]

@MandaJo

Small cities are dominated, IME, by big, national chains much more than big cities are. If you want the unique marker of a big city, it’s neither the big chains or the local joints–it’s the Goldilocks medium.

True, and the differentiator between a “big city” that has the Goldilocks medium and a really huge city, is the persistent presence of very specialized specialty shops - the ones that cater to a particular expat nationality, or a particular form of artisan food and the like.

Those sorts of places really only survive in metro areas above a certain size where there are enough oddballs, gourmands and enthusiasts to keep them in business.

For example, the Dallas area has a couple of artisan cheese shops and a number of expat community shops that wouldn’t make it in say… Waco or Amarillo.

However, stuff like Olive Garden, Best Buy, etc… thrive in cities of that size.

[msmith537]

Big cities tend to have unique cultures that separate them from other big cities and “everywhere else”. New York, LA, Boston, San Fran, Chicago, New Orleans, Nashville all have unique stores, bars, restaruants and other cultural venues that make them unuiquely “them”.

I find in amusing when people who live in the vast suburban wasteland between cities talk about getting a chain or big box store as if their town has “arrived”. My home town didn’t “arrive” when we finally got a McDonalds 20 years ago. We just because slightly less of a suburban Connecticut hick town.

And what is equally amusing is when people visit New York and immediately gravitate towards the same Olive Garden or Red Lobster they would go to back home, just because it’s familiar and has a 50 foot sign in Times Square. I mean go to Yelp.com for Christ’s sake.

[Ellis_Aponte_Jr]

@heathen_earthling

There are no Cheesecake Factories in Canada.

Or in New York City.

[Ludovic]

@msmith537

I find in amusing when people who live in the vast suburban wasteland between cities talk about getting a chain or big box store as if their town has “arrived”. My home town didn’t “arrive” when we finally got a McDonalds 20 years ago. We just because slightly less of a suburban Connecticut hick town.

A couple years ago I was visiting my brother in Federal Hill, Baltimore, and some of his friends were talking about how there may soon be big box stores coming within walking distance. As long as it’s walkable, sometimes it’s more convenient to go to one place for clothes and food rather than walk all over the place. Of course they weren’t talking about it as if that meant Federal Hill had arrived, but still it is a topic of conversation everywhere.

[11811]

Some of these things you’ll find on the outskirts of a large city

I live in Philadelphia

Apple Store – in town
Ikea – down in the South Philly shopping district
Whole Foods (or maybe a regional equivalent) – 2 in town
Cheesecake Factory – not to my knowledge
Hard Rock Cafe – in town
IMAX theatre – in town, but attached to the Franklin Institute

I would guess the other stores that might define a city would be high-end shopping, like Ann Taylor, Brooks Brothers, one or more department stores.

[Acsenray]

@Dewey_Finn

Until recently, there was no IKEA store in New York, although they had stores on Long Island and New Jersey.

@Dewey_Finn

Really? Because I don’t think there are any Walmart stores in New York. And Chicago appears to only have the smaller format stores.

@That_Don_Guy

Not too many major cities have IKEAs - you need a lot of room for one of those. The only IKEA in the San Francisco area is just north of Oakland. San Francisco does have all of the others (in fact, it has three Apple stores).

I might replace IKEA with Barnes & Noble in that list, although a number of B&Ns have been closed in the past few years.

Who cares about whether these things are within the legal municipal boundaries? It’s pretty clear to me that we’re talking about what’s within accessible distance of a major metropolitan center.