# Chalabi compound raided... political analysis ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229 "2004-05-20T18:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/21 "2004-05-21T03:32:08Z")
I love the way the assumptions and conspiracies in this thread are all about the evil U.S. administration. Oh yeah, his house was raided to see how much dirt he had on the U.S. It’s all a big power play. No, wait, it’s a way to distance Chalabi from the U.S. so that he can gain legitimacy and be a puppet! No, he’s a ‘fall guy’. How about this: Chalabi has been cozying up to the Iranians. Iran is meddling in Iraq. Then Chalabi gets caught passing sensitive intel to Iran. In the meantime, Iran has its fingerprints all over the Sadr mess. Someone in the intelligence community puts it together, and decides that Chalabi is now working his own game. He has decided that his bread is no longer buttered by the U.S., so he’s working with the Iranians, and this is not a good thing. Therefore, his house is raided and his documents and computers grabbed to see what he’s up to. [Raid to uncover Chalabi’s secrets](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/21/1085028509528.html) > [@](#): > > “Senior US officials told us today that they have evidence Chalabi has been passing highly classified US intelligence to Iran,” CBS Evening News reported. > > There was no independent confirmation of the report. > > CBS said an aide to Chalabi dismissed the charges as “nonsense” and said they were part of an effort by the CIA to discredit him. > > The report quoted unnamed sources as saying a senior member of Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress “is believed to have been recruited by Iran’s intelligence agency and is on their payroll”. > > The New York Times reported that American and Iraqi officials involved in the action said they were seeking to arrest Chalabi’s staff “who they believed were involved in kidnapping, torture, embezzlement and the theft of government property”. The other explanation being offered, which no one has mentioned, is that the U.S. is claiming that Chalabi is actually impeding the oil-for-food investigation. Officials believe that Chalabi has withheld documents related to the massive scandal: > [@](#): > > The London Telegraph reports that Chalabi is in possession of “miles” of documents with the potential to expose politicians, corporations and the UN itself as having connived in a system of kickbacks and false pricing worth billions of pounds. > > The Telegraph reports: So explosive are the contents of the files that their publication would cause serious problems for US allies and friendly states around the globe. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/22 "2004-05-21T03:45:10Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Valerie Plame? > > With regards to the raid on Chalabi’s records, we had to do it both to find out what dirt he’s got on the US and friends, and to pre-distance ourselves from him in the event that he reactivates his militia after June 30 and brings about an abrupt end to the UN’s pie-in-the-sky caretaker government. > > We might hear something like this wafting out of Washington come September: His militia’s already quite active: [**Apartheid Era Human Rights Violators Train INC Linked Armed Forces**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256284) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/23 "2004-05-21T03:49:35Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > The other explanation being offered, which no one has mentioned, is that the U.S. is claiming that Chalabi is actually impeding the oil-for-food investigation. Officials believe that Chalabi has withheld documents related to the massive scandal: Actually, I already mentioned each of these [Maybe now the actual documents that’re the basis for the UN Oil for Food scandal can be seen by someone outside the little clique who has been keeping them.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4881058#post4881058) [The bolded sentence really caught my attention.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4881253#post4881253) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/24 "2004-05-21T03:53:34Z")
Sorry, **SimonX**. You’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/25 "2004-05-21T04:34:16Z")
**Sam** I’m not pushing a damned conspiracy theory. All that’d be needed for things to work out as I described (presupposing Chalabi’s ultimate intentions) would be a a little insight and a cover your ass atitude by a few of the military types who OK’d the use of troops for the raid. Bremer didn’t seem to know about the raids until later in the day, in fact I saw a few early denials that US troops were involved at all. Our power structure over there is obviously factionalized, so linking the raids to some sort of overarching US strategy of reacting to serious threats is overrated as an explanation of what happened. That aside, the OP called for a look at what the ramifications of the raids might be. Of course that will rather depend on what happens in the struggle for control of the country after June 30. If Chalabi manages to seize power, today’s events could have a definite upside for the US. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/26 "2004-05-21T06:32:16Z")
WAG Maybe the Ba’athists that Chalabi cited, know that Chalabi et al have ievidence that Chalabi found a way to continue extending special financial to Hussein since the fall of Petra bank. …[[www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/04/chalabi/index2.html+petra+iraq+hassan+Aziz+hussein+bank&hl=en](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/04/chalabi/index2.html+petra+iraq+hassan+Aziz+hussein+bank&hl=en)]]([http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:T61FV1iGH3gJ:[url)[Chalabi]](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:T61FV1iGH3gJ:%5Burl)%5BChalabi%5D) helped finance Saddam Hussein’s trade with Jordan during the 1980s. [He] helped organize… [an] …account for Iraq at the Jordanian central bank. Due to the problems created by the war with Iran, Saddam Hussein was unable to obtain credit on normal terms. The special account with the Jordanians allowed him to swap oil for…imports…without going through the international credit system. As Hassan Abdul Aziz explains, “Petra was the first to give letters of credit to Iraq, which they did for 23 months before Banco del Lavoro did in 1984. (The Banco del Lavoro scandal involved the provision of U.S. government commodities loans to buy arms for Saddam Hussein.) By 1986 Jordan had $1 billion in annual trade with Iraq this way, and Petra Bank had 50% of the market.” Maybe a company associated with Chalabi helped process some of the questionable Oil for Food transactions. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/27 "2004-05-21T06:33:51Z")
WAG Maybe the Ba’athists that Chalabi cited, know that Chalabi et al have ievidence that Chalabi found a way to continue extending special financial to Hussein since the fall of Petra bank. …[[Chalabi] helped finance Saddam Hussein’s trade with Jordan during the 1980s](http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:T61FV1iGH3gJ:www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/05/04/chalabi/index2.html+petra+iraq+hassan+Aziz+hussein+bank&hl=en). [He] helped organize… [an] …account for Iraq at the Jordanian central bank. Due to the problems created by the war with Iran, Saddam Hussein was unable to obtain credit on normal terms. The special account with the Jordanians allowed him to swap oil for…imports…without going through the international credit system. As Hassan Abdul Aziz explains, “Petra was the first to give letters of credit to Iraq, which they did for 23 months before Banco del Lavoro did in 1984. (The Banco del Lavoro scandal involved the provision of U.S. government commodities loans to buy arms for Saddam Hussein.) By 1986 Jordan had $1 billion in annual trade with Iraq this way, and Petra Bank had 50% of the market.” Maybe a company associated with Chalabi helped process some of the questionable Oil for Food transactions. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/28 "2004-05-21T14:07:43Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > How about this: Chalabi has been cozying up to the Iranians. Iran is meddling in Iraq. Then Chalabi gets caught passing sensitive intel to Iran. In the meantime, Iran has its fingerprints all over the Sadr mess. Someone in the intelligence community puts it together, and decides that Chalabi is now working his own game. He has decided that his bread is no longer buttered by the U.S., so he’s working with the Iranians, and this is not a good thing. Good points, Sam. (Did I actually SAY that? 😉 ) But, because I just loves me a good conspiracy theory, could the Iranians, through Chalabi, have suckered the US into invading Iraq to finish the job they couldn’t do on their own? It was his buddies Rummy, Wolfie, and Perle who apparently hamstrung the post-invasion through various bad moves and left the stage open for a Shi’ite demagogue like Sadr. AND they didn’t do the first-grade arithmetic that would have told them that a representative democracy in a majority Shi’ite nation was likely to include a majority of Shi’ites in power AND said government was likely to lean toward Iran. Did Chalabi and the Iranians play us for saps? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/29 "2004-05-21T18:39:14Z")
What about consequences in Washington ? No power play ideas ? My first thought was its inside fighting… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/30 "2004-05-21T19:21:06Z")
Watching the Bush-lovin’ Republicans spin how Chalibi went from “George W. Bush’s favorite democratic Iraqi Founding Father” to “Evil two-timing Iranian spy” ought to be fun, though. Anyone want to pre-emptively dig up some pro-Chalibi quotes from the Administration? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/31 "2004-05-21T19:46:38Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > But, because I just loves me a good conspiracy theory, could the Iranians, through Chalabi, have suckered the US into invading Iraq to finish the job they couldn’t do on their own? It was his buddies Rummy, Wolfie, and Perle who apparently hamstrung the post-invasion through various bad moves and left the stage open for a Shi’ite demagogue like Sadr. AND they didn’t do the first-grade arithmetic that would have told them that a representative democracy in a majority Shi’ite nation was likely to include a majority of Shi’ites in power AND said government was likely to lean toward Iran. I love it! They knew the hatred of the neocons for Saddam, so they would have seen it wouldn’t have taken much to push us into war, especially after 9/11. Forget about democracy, whatever happens the Shia would take over or the US would get bloodied, both good outcomes from their point of view. Of course it only works if the US Secretary of Defense is a real idiot about post war Iraq, and they couldn’t have been expecting that, now could they? Acttually, it seems more likely that after it became clear that Chalabi was not a viable leader of Iraq, and after his intelligence continued not to pan out, it was easier to dump him. The Times this morning said that he wasn’t popular even at the time of the Statue of the Union address. Once he figure that out he became anti-CPA, which might have opened our eyes to the known corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/32 "2004-05-21T23:47:45Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Watching the Bush-lovin’ Republicans spin how Chalibi went from “George W. Bush’s favorite democratic Iraqi Founding Father” to “Evil two-timing Iranian spy” ought to be fun, though. > > Anyone want to pre-emptively dig up some pro-Chalibi quotes from the Administration? Oh, they’ll justify it. They’ll just call him a traitor (like, duh) or say that they opposed him the whole time, or something. Watch, it’ll be funny. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/33 "2004-05-22T03:55:24Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Watching the Bush-lovin’ Republicans spin how Chalibi went from “George W. Bush’s favorite democratic Iraqi Founding Father” to “Evil two-timing Iranian spy” ought to be fun, though. I’d look fo something more subtle. Remember, it’s possible that CBS’s sources’re right about the high level investigation that’s going on into who in the USG INC’s intel chief, Aras Karim Habib acquired the sensitive info from. [Mr. Karim, incidentally was at least temporarily in charge of the De-Baathification](http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:SjNJhy6VWWoJ:209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/909285/posts+%22aras+karim+habib%22&hl=en). Holy Cow! Look at these claims! **[Agency: Chalabi group was front for Iran](http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uschal0522,0,340595.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines)** _BY KNUT ROYCE WASHINGTON BUREAU May 21, 2004, 7:29 PM EDT_ WASHINGTON – The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that a **U.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress has been used for years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the United States and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according to intelligence sources.** **"Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States through Chalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Program information to provoke the United States into getting rid of Saddam Hussein** ," said an intelligence source Friday who was briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency’s conclusions, which were based on a review of thousands of internal documents. _Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc._ ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/34 "2004-05-22T04:10:14Z")
I am starting to think that not only is this Administration incompetent, myopic, tunnel visioned, simplistic, amoral, opportunist and reckless, it is also snake bit. Just how many more things can go wrong. I fully expect that some time in a early 2001 one or another of the puppet masters turned to the others and said, “I have a cunning plan…” What else can go wrong for these innocents playing at big power politics? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/35 "2004-05-22T04:22:32Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > U.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress has been used for years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the United States and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according to intelligence sources…“Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States through Chalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Program information to provoke the United States into getting rid of Saddam Hussein” (acknowledging the applause) Thank you folks! Thank you! You may ask how it was that I finally managed to come up with a conspiracy theory that turns out to have some basis in truth. Well, all I can say is that it was assuming that the neocons are even dumber than they are egotistical. Expect that they will screw themselves over and you can’t go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/36 "2004-05-22T08:14:45Z")
**[Chalabi officials targeted in raid](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0522iraq-chalabi22.html)** _Washington Post May. 22, 2004 12:00 AM_ One of Chalabi’s advisers said Friday that INC officials received advance notice of U.S. plans to search the \*INC intelligence building \* and removed their computers weeks ago. The adviser, Francis Brooke, said “nothing of any intelligence value” was recovered in the raids. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/37 "2004-05-24T14:35:45Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > **[Chalabi officials targeted in raid](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0522iraq-chalabi22.html)** > _Washington Post > May. 22, 2004 12:00 AM_ > > One of Chalabi’s advisers said Friday that INC officials received advance notice of U.S. plans to search the \*INC intelligence building \* and removed their computers weeks ago. The adviser, Francis Brooke, said “nothing of any intelligence value” was recovered in the raids. One more reason to beleive this is only about politics and posturing ? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/38 "2004-05-24T15:40:48Z")
Jim Morin’s 21st May Editorial Cartoon says it all: (hope the link works… ) [Jim Morin](http://cagle.slate.msn.com/politicalcartoons/PCcartoons/PCbest8.asp) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/39 "2004-05-25T01:08:47Z")
Saw Chalabi on CNN yesterday – he denies spying for Iran, says the CIA is trying to discredit him, and offered to testify before Congress, opposite George Tenet, and let them both tell their stories. Think he’ll get the chance? He’s also urged Bush to invite the leaders of all the Iraqi factions to a Camp David summit to work out a political settlement. Good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229/40 "2004-05-25T01:17:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Saw Chalabi on CNN yesterday – he denies spying for Iran, says the CIA is trying to discredit him, and offered to testify before Congress, opposite George Tenet, and let them both tell their stories. Think he’ll get the chance? It would probably be about as entertaining and informative as Ms. Rice’s performance or Mr. Powell’s presentation. On the other hand, I wouldn’t know who to cheer for. Oh, god, it is like 2000 all over again. > [@](#): > > He’s also urged Bush to invite the leaders of all the Iraqi factions to a Camp David summit to work out a political settlement. Good idea? I don’t see what magic fairy potion (the CIA doesn’t have that yet, do they?) that would make them all start agreeing at Camp David instead of fighting and bickering in Baghdad. He’s probably just fishing for some way to make himself look like the Uniter of the bunch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-compound-raided-political-analysis/246229.md?page=3)