# Chalabi Gave Iranians Top Secret Info - Who Gave it To Him? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203 "2004-06-02T04:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/1 "2004-06-02T04:14:50Z")
Tne NY Times reports that “United States intelligence officials” are accusing Ahmad Chalabi of tipping off the Iranian government that the U.S. broke their secret communications code. Such knowledge would be classified at the very highest levels, because obviously, if Iran knows the U.S. broke their code, they will immediately change it, thus rendering useless all the effort that was spent in breaking the code in the first place. Could Chalabi have been given this information? Who would have done such a thing, and why? Or is it a false charge (Chalabi denies it), trumped up by anti-Chalabi elements in the CIA? I see only two scenarios: 1. Chalabi was in fact given the information, which is prima facie evidence of espionage at high levels in the intelligence community, or 2. Chalabi is being falsely accused, which lays bare a serious rift in the Bush administration, since an accusation of this kind can only reflect poorly on the administration’s competence in trusting this Chalabi character. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/2 "2004-06-02T04:15:53Z")
My favorite curren heories involve Hannah and Rubin. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/3 "2004-06-02T04:22:55Z")
Just look to who is biggest supporter was. Hint… observetory. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/4 "2004-06-02T04:35:27Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > …which is prima facie evidence of espionage at high levels in the intelligence community… Whoahnellybozo! Who said anything about the intelligence community being involved in the dissemination of this info, ( I mean besides the chief of INC’s ICP? Yes, the INC’s ICP was a part of the US intel community.) > [@Hyperelastic](#): > > …or 2. Chalabi is being falsely accused, which lays bare a serious rift in the Bush administration, since an accusation of this kind can only reflect poorly on the administration’s competence in trusting this Chalabi character. Well, Aras Karim Habib is a _known_ Iranian agent. He was a member of the Pasdaran. This was known since at least the mid-nineties. Mr Karim was in charge of the Iraqi National Congress’ Intelligence Collection Program. This ICP is the same ICP who supplied the WH with the evidence re Iraq that Powell recently characterized as ‘deliberately misleading.’ Incidentally, one of the key informants provided was known to teh DIA a ‘fabricator’ for about two years before the Bush Admin decided to use his info to make their case for the invasion of Iraq\*. This is who the Bush Admin decided to trust. Anyway, here’s further reading from the vast SDMB/GD vault: [DIA says Iran used INC to get US in Iraq?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=257550) \*And the Bush Admin said, “Memo? What memo? I didn’t read it.” Thereby advancing the position that they are not mendacious, merely incompetent. That is _the_ theme for this Admin- Mendacity or Incompetence? We fuck up, you decide. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/5 "2004-06-02T04:41:21Z")
Here’s a link to the NY Times article (and a snippet thereof): > **[THE REACH OF WAR: THE OFFENSE; Chalabi Reportedly Told Iran That U.S. Had...](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/02/world/the-reach-of-war-the-offense-chalabi-reportedly-told-iran-that-us-had-code.html)** > > US intelligence officials say Ahmad Chalabi, former Bush administration ally on Iraqi governing council, told Iran about US breaking communications code of Iran's intelligence service; The New York Times and other media organizations publish details... > [@](#): > > American officials said that about six weeks ago, Mr. Chalabi told the Baghdad station chief of Iran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security that the United States was reading the communications traffic of the Iranian spy service, one of the most sophisticated in the Middle East. > > According to American officials, the Iranian official in Baghdad, possibly not believing Mr. Chalabi’s account, sent a cable to Tehran detailing his conversation with Mr. Chalabi, using the broken code. That encrypted cable, intercepted and read by the United States, tipped off American officials to the fact that Mr. Chalabi had betrayed the code-breaking operation, the American officials said. > > American officials reported that in the cable to Tehran, the Iranian official recounted how Mr. Chalabi had said that one of “them” — a reference to an American — had revealed the code-breaking operation, the officials said. The Iranian reported that Mr. Chalabi said the American was drunk. Nice. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/6 "2004-06-02T05:09:42Z")
As per par for the GWB WH course, If it weren’t so grave, it’d be funny as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/7 "2004-06-02T05:15:58Z")
The pentagon has weathered many scandals so far. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this should the allegations be true. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/8 "2004-06-02T05:19:39Z")
Almost as funny as letting Iran manipulate, through false intelligence, the most powerful country in the world into neutralizing one of Iran’s biggest enemies. It could be argued that the country that got manipulated is a pretty big enemy, too. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/9 "2004-06-02T05:22:10Z")
> [@cmason32](#): > > The pentagon has weathered many scandals so far. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this should the allegations be true. There’re just so many brewing for the WH at this moment… real honest to Og scandals that involve grand juries and the FBI and such, not just ones that you have to look up on the Drudge report… It’s hard not to think that the GWB Admin’s [DOOMED](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=258132) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/10 "2004-06-02T05:28:08Z")
The drunk part is particularly juicy, not in the least because there can’t be too many high-level people who have this info and also regularly get intoxicated and pal around with traitors. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/11 "2004-06-02T06:09:09Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Tne NY Times reports that “United States intelligence officials” are accusing Ahmad Chalabi of tipping off the Iranian government that the U.S. broke their secret communications code. Chances are , the Iranians already knew that their codes were broken, Chalabi probably just confirmed it. > [@](#): > > Such knowledge would be classified at the very highest levels, because obviously, **if Iran knows the U.S. broke their code, they will immediately change it** , thus rendering useless all the effort that was spent in breaking the code in the first place. NO , what the Iranians do , if they are smart is feed the machine , keep it going , so that the states gets what Iran wants em to ,and not whats actually top secret as far as they are concerned. > [@](#): > > **Could Chalabi have been given this information? Who would have done such a thing, and why?** Or is it a false charge (Chalabi denies it), trumped up by anti-Chalabi elements in the CIA? I see only two scenarios: 1. Chalabi was in fact given the information, which is prima facie evidence of espionage at high levels in the intelligence community, or 2. Chalabi is being falsely accused, which lays bare a serious rift in the Bush administration, since an accusation of this kind can only reflect poorly on the administration’s competence in trusting this Chalabi character. C , may have been caught in a canary trap, while he goes off to blab to the iranians , the originator of the information is flushed or is leaned on and turned. Declan ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/12 "2004-06-02T06:11:43Z")
Hmm. Fish in a barrell. Doug “the stupidest fucking man on the face of the Earth (Tommy Franks)” Feith or Stephen Cambone (Undersec of Defense for Intelligence). Pick one. Well, it ain’t like they don’t go over this stuff when you get cleared for that kind of information: > [@](#): > > I have been advised that the **unauthorized disclosure** , unauthorized > retention, or **negligent handling** of classified information by me could cause > damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to > advantage by a **foreign nation**. I hereby agree that I will never divulge > classified information to anyone unless: (a) I have officially verified that > the recipient has been properly authorized by the United States Government > to receive it: or (b) I have been given prior written notice of > authorization from the United States Government Department or Agency > (hereinafter Department or Agency) responsible for the classification of the > information or last granting me a security clearance that such disclosure is > permitted. I understand that if I am uncertain about the classification > status of information, I am required to confirm from an authorized official > that the information is unclassified before I may disclose it, except to a > person as provided in (a) or (b), above. I further understand that I am > obligated to comply with laws and regulations that prohibit the unauthorized > disclosure of classified information. > > - US Government Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement (SF-312) Then again, as SecDef, Herr Rumsfeld probably had the authority to give Chalabi the crown jewels if he was feeling especially frisky given that he’s probably the final authority on part (a). ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/13 "2004-06-02T06:12:14Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Chances are , the Iranians already knew that their codes were broken, Chalabi probably just confirmed it. > > Declan Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/14 "2004-06-02T06:46:41Z")
Let’s see… do we know any people who have a history of alcoholism in high places int he US government? Who could that be? Someone with a shady past where they spend a decade in a drunken stupor… maybe clumsy and stupid enough to trust someone like Chalabi and follow his every word… Could there be any such person in the US government? Geeeeeeeee… ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/15 "2004-06-02T07:03:58Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Let’s see… do we know any people who have a history of alcoholism in high places int he US government? Who could that be? Someone with a shady past where they spend a decade in a drunken stupor… maybe clumsy and stupid enough to trust someone like Chalabi and follow his every word… > > Could there be any such person in the US government? Geeeeeeeee… Surely you don’t mean the Teetotaler in Chief? Bite your tongue! But seriously, Chalabi probably spent a lot more time hanging out with the E-Ring boys telling whoppers about the hot Young Republican interns they’ve bedded while tossing back cognacs (though being a good Muslim, Mr. Chalabi certainly just had seltzer…) in the than he did at the boring ol’ alchohol-free White House. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/16 "2004-06-02T20:41:32Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Let’s see… do we know any people who have a history of alcoholism in high places int he US government? Who could that be? Someone with a shady past where they spend a decade in a drunken stupor… maybe clumsy and stupid enough to trust someone like Chalabi and follow his every word… > > Could there be any such person in the US government? Geeeeeeeee… Would someone with this description often appears with bruises on his face ? Then blame them on Pretzels and Bikes ? ( self joke… and Segways ?) ---
**Author:** ![cmason32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@cmason32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmason32)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/17 "2004-06-02T20:59:29Z")
Chalabi, of course, [is denying he told the Iranians](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3770685.stm) that the US broke the code. Let’s just hope that this investigation proceeds faster than the one looking into the Plame leak. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/18 "2004-06-02T21:15:36Z")
The cost of overthrowing a US puppet regime,…billions of dollars in frozen assets Fighting your expansionist neighbor to a standstill…, millions of lives ,( some to poison gas use aimed by US intel.). Sitting back and watching enemy #1 fuck up enemy # 2, and then itself get fucked up by the people enemy # 2 was fucking over, priceless ---
**Author:** ![rngadam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/97f17d/32.png) [@rngadam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rngadam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/19 "2004-06-02T21:25:20Z")
It has become entirely too obvious that Bush himself gave the information to Chalabi as they are working together to establish Iran as the #1 superpower. [Cite here](http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=7799)😉 ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/20 "2004-06-02T21:36:02Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > That is _the_ theme for this Admin- Mendacity or Incompetence? We fuck up, you decide. Some statements are just so wonderful at summing up the situation, I just have to quote them for the sheer joy of it! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203.md?page=2)