# Chalabi Gave Iranians Top Secret Info - Who Gave it To Him? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2004, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203 "2004-06-02T04:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/41 "2004-06-03T06:16:55Z")
> [@cmason32](#): > > Why doesn’t the press call him out on this bullshit? That damn liberal media! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/42 "2004-06-03T11:32:02Z")
People, this is TREASON, just like the outing of Valerie Plame was TREASON. When are we going to stop letting the Bush Administration get away with treason? Some people need to do some serious jail time over this. And over Plame. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/43 "2004-06-03T13:30:32Z")
Nah, just another example of sleazoid politics. If St. Ronald of Bakersfield can covertly fund a foreign war in direct contradiction to the stated will of Congress and sell our military hardware to a belligerant power (however nobly motivated), “treason” doesn’t have a lot of meaning anymore. Except for “Hanoi John” Kerry. That’s different. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/44 "2004-06-03T15:02:32Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > People, this is TREASON, just like the outing of Valerie Plame was TREASON. When are we going to stop letting the Bush Administration get away with treason? Some people need to do some serious jail time over this. And over Plame. What definition of treason are you using? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/45 "2004-06-03T15:05:49Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Mendacity and incompetency are not mutually exclusive. GW runs a full service administration. What an excellent point. No need to choose. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/46 "2004-06-03T15:08:27Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > What odds are you giving for Michael Ledeen? I don’t know. Whatcha got? Is he likely to’ve had access to such things? ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/47 "2004-06-03T16:24:07Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > I don’t know. Whatcha got? > Is he likely to’ve had access to such things? Well, he does [have a history of obtaining classified ifo he doesn’t need to know](http://www.counterpunch.com/green02282004.html). It also depends on the extent of the leak: Was Chalabi only told that the Iranian code had been broken, _or_ was he given details of the code breaking technique? Different levels of security clearance for each option, no? Pure speculation on my part, but I keep thinking Ledeen’s daughter Simone has a part in this (remember she almost certainly had contact with Chalabi when she was sent to Baghdad via the Heritage Foundation). I’m discounting Rubin somewhat because he was one of those taken into the inner circle - in attendance at that NSC meeting prior to dumping Chalabi. Don’t know much about Hannah, other than some of your previous cites. Is he a drinker? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Middlea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@Middlea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Middlea)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/48 "2004-06-03T17:05:03Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Let’s see… do we know any people who have a history of alcoholism in high places int he US government? Who could that be? Someone with a shady past where they spend a decade in a drunken stupor… maybe clumsy and stupid enough to trust someone like Chalabi and follow his every word… > > Could there be any such person in the US government? Geeeeeeeee… You mean he’s fallen off more than just a bicycle? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/49 "2004-06-03T17:21:12Z")
Who’s this Chalabi fellow you guys are all talking about?!? Oh…You mean, [George Tenet’s buddy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=259597)? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/50 "2004-06-04T03:02:05Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > What definition of treason are you using? Oh, the one that involves knowingly betraying U.S. miltary secrets to people who may be agents of a foreign power will do just fine. Or knowingly betraying U.S. covert agents. You know, the things we know Bush Administration officials have done. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/51 "2004-06-04T03:28:28Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Oh, the one that involves knowingly betraying U.S. miltary secrets to people who may be agents of a foreign power will do just fine. Or knowingly betraying U.S. covert agents. You know, the things we know Bush Administration officials have done. I don’t think that treason applies to ‘foreign powers.’ IIRC it only applies to those who are [enemies](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Wn3f_sQAk78J:tomdelay.house.gov/constitution/Text/article3.htm+treason+%22shall+consist+only%22+%22adhering+to+their+enemies%22&hl=en). The question becomes, “Is Iran an ‘enemy’ of the US?” ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/52 "2004-06-04T04:06:04Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > I don’t think that treason applies to ‘foreign powers.’ IIRC it only applies to those who are [enemies](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:Wn3f_sQAk78J:tomdelay.house.gov/constitution/Text/article3.htm+treason+%22shall+consist+only%22+%22adhering+to+their+enemies%22&hl=en). > The question becomes, “Is Iran an ‘enemy’ of the US?” Well, how does one become a member of the “Axis of Evil” these days? Do you do it by being our best friend? Or by sending in 3 Fruit Loops box tops and $4.95 to cover shipping and handling to “G.W.'s Special Axis-of-Evil Collector’s Edition Designation Offer”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/53 "2004-06-04T04:59:50Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Well, how does one become a member of the “Axis of Evil” these days? Do you do it by being our best friend? Or by sending in 3 Fruit Loops box tops and $4.95 to cover shipping and handling to “G.W.'s Special Axis-of-Evil Collector’s Edition Designation Offer”? 😉 I’m unclear as to the _legal_ definition of enemy. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/54 "2004-06-04T05:44:12Z")
Here’s a more clearly applicable statute to use for indictment: United States Code TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 37 - ESPIONAGE AND CENSORSHIP [Section 798. Disclosure of classified information](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:rMDa2yhkxjEJ:caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/37/sections/section_798.html+%22Section+798.+Disclosure+of+classified+information+%22&hl=en) ``` (a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information - (1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or ``` \ (3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or (4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. (b) As used in subsection (a) of this section - The term ‘‘classified information’’ means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution; The terms ‘‘code,’’ ‘‘cipher,’’ and ‘‘cryptographic system’’ include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications; The term ‘‘foreign government’’ includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States; The term ‘‘communication intelligence’’ means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients; The term ‘‘unauthorized person’’ means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States. © Nothing in this section shall prohibit the furnishing, upon lawful demand, of information to any regularly constituted committee of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States of America, or joint committee thereof. (d)(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall forfeit to the United States irrespective of any provision of State law - (A) any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds the person obtained, directly or indirectly, as the result of such violation; and (B) any of the person’s property used, or intended to be used, in any manner or part, to commit, or to facilitate the commission of, such violation. (2) The court, in imposing sentence on a defendant for a conviction of a violation of this section, shall order that the defendant forfeit to the United States all property described in paragraph (1). (3) Except as provided in paragraph (4), the provisions of subsections (b), ©, and (e) through § of section 413 of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 (21 U.S.C. 853(b), ©, and (e)-§), shall apply to - (A) property subject to forfeiture under this subsection; (B) any seizure or disposition of such property; and © any administrative or judicial proceeding in relation to such property, if not inconsistent with this subsection. (4) Notwithstanding section 524© of title 28, there shall be deposited in the Crime Victims Fund established under section 1402 of the Victims of Crime Act of 1984 (42 U.S.C. 10601) all amounts from the forfeiture of property under this subsection remaining after the payment of expenses for forfeiture and sale authorized by law. (5) As used in this subsection, the term ‘‘State’’ means any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and any territory or possession of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/55 "2004-06-04T06:18:50Z")
Gee, thanks **Simon**. That was swell. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/56 "2004-06-04T06:25:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Gee, thanks **Simon**. That was swell. sarcasm’ll get you nowhere in life. Didn’t your folks ever tell you that? I just offered this opposed to the charges of treason that **EC** ’d like to see levied. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/57 "2004-06-12T17:18:33Z")
> [@annaplurabelle](#): > > What odds are you giving for Michael Ledeen? If it was Ledeen, he would have acted treasonously even if his actions didn’t constitute treason in that he says that Iran is one of the United States’ enemies. **[Iraq: A Wide War](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:2VgCU6EsKi0J:www.benadorassociates.com/article/247+%22This+was+a+clear+declaration+of+war+on+us%22&hl=en)**\* by Michael A. Ledeen New York Post March 21, 2003\* Iran and Syria have already prepared a terrorist campaign against the allied forces in Iraq. Not for nothing did Iran’s hardline Hashemi Rafsanjani proclaim last week that the presence of American troops in Iraq would be worse than Saddam Hussein. _This was a clear declaration of war on us_, and we should expect attacks from the full panoply of terrorist groups, from the dreaded Hezbollah to Islamic Jihad, al Qaeda, Hamas and the rest. Thus the war in Iraq will very quickly become a regional conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2004, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/58 "2004-06-13T09:45:07Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > I guess this is a regional saying. > It’s the equivalent of Zoinks! or Jeepers! > Bozo used to say it to himself all run together like that most everyday on TV. > But Bozo wasn’t the same Bozo all over the country. > Note that I didn’t say, “Whoah nelly, Bozo!” > > I offer my apologies for any offense you may have taken. Offense was not my intention. I hope that you will accept them. Sure, thanks. I didn’t watch Bozo much, as I fear and loathe clowns. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203/59 "2004-06-21T23:54:19Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > If it was Ledeen, he would have acted treasonously even if his actions didn’t constitute treason in that he says that Iran is one of the United States’ enemies. > > **[[www.benadorassociates.com/article/247+"This+was+a+clear+declaration+of+war+on+us"&hl=en](http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/247+%22This+was+a+clear+declaration+of+war+on+us%22&hl=en)]Iraq:]([http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:2VgCU6EsKi0J:](http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:2VgCU6EsKi0J:)[url) A Wide War**\* > by Michael A. Ledeen > New York Post > March 21, 2003\* > > Iran and Syria have already prepared a terrorist campaign against the allied forces in Iraq. Not for nothing did Iran’s hardline Hashemi Rafsanjani proclaim last week that the presence of American troops in Iraq would be worse than Saddam Hussein. > > _This was a clear declaration of war on us_, and we should expect attacks from the full panoply of terrorist groups, from the dreaded Hezbollah to Islamic Jihad, al Qaeda, Hamas and the rest. Thus the war in Iraq will very quickly become a regional conflict. Okay. Putting aside my nonsense about Ledeen’s daughter and substituting **Harold Rhode** , Ledeen’s ideological son, protege, and apparently, [gopher](http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=harold_rhode): > [@](#): > > The Pentagon Office of Special Plans sends two Defense officials, **Harold Rhode** and Larry Franklin, to Paris where they secretly meet with Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian arms trader who had been a central figure in the Iran-Contra affair. > > **Michael Ledeen** of the American Enterprise Institute is said to have arranged the meeting, which is _not authorized by the White House_. [Newsday, 8/9/03; Washington Post, 8/9/03 Sources: A senior official interviewed by Newsday] > > It appears that the purpose of the meeting is to undermine a pending deal that the White House is negotiating with the Iranian government. Iran is considering turning over five al-Qaeda operatives in exchange for Washington dropping its support for _Mujahadeen Khalq, an Iraq-based rebel Iranian group listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department_. The Office of Special Plans is reportedly interested in using this group to help destabilize Iran’s government. Motive _and_ opportunity, no? I think you are correct in that **Rubin** and **Hannah** are still the prime suspects though. I’m not sure how it can be narrowed down further when all of the suspects appear to share a single brain/mindset (sigh). Rubin and Ledeen in particular would appear to have had the same security clearance as consults to Feith/OSP, no? Anyway, I’m no longer taking this story at face value. The left-leaning blogs are on fire with rumours that this **Chalabi scandal** will shortly intersect with the **Plame leak** and **“memos detailing suppression of evidence that there were _no WMD in Iraq_”** scandals. :eek: Are you absolutely ruling out a “CIA-sponsered- **trifecta** of payback”? If the blogs are correct, we can expect the fallout of the intersect in the “not so distant future”… (not trying to imply that you’re an absolutist type 🙂 ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalabi-gave-iranians-top-secret-info-who-gave-it-to-him/248203.md?page=2)