# Chalk on the sidewalk, Boo hoo hoo **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025 "2016-03-24T15:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/61 "2016-03-25T22:36:53Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And the counseling and safe spaces were the crux of what made this story? Obviously not, as no one in this thread anywhere brought them up. Some comments glanced off it. The “special snowflakes” meme, while not without some truth, relies not so much on the idea that college students are passionate and self-righteous, but that they are tender and precious, and just can’t handle such challenges. More to the point–Snopes wasn’t addressing this thread, but the multiple media reports that contained the “counseling” claim, and associated depictions. That these things _were_ repeated demonstrates that they are, if not the crux, at least legs of the story. > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You don’t get to add unnecessary details to a story that nearly no one associated with the story, and then call the story “mostly false” when those unnecessary details are wrong. I dispute the “nearly no one” element here. Snopes _added_ no details not already published. But regardless, as I said, I thought it was poorly written on their part. Their format of assigning a single summary “truth” rating to all stories is not really ideal for working through a real event that’s being retold in variously-embellished versions. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/62 "2016-03-25T23:46:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The same reason you think you have the right to be comfortable in your own house and yard. The students are championing for a place where they can get away from the real world for a while. A place where people who are regularly face bigotry all the time can get away from it for a while. A place where they don’t constantly be on their guard. In my opinion, school should be “the real world”. Not to mention, someone supporting a presidential candidate isn’t fucking hate speech. “So and So for President!” isn’t hate speech. > [@](#): > > They have to say “safe and comfortable” because all you guys keep making fun of them for saying “safe spaces” when they aren’t in any real danger. They aren’t in any danger. THEY’RE making themselves feel “unsafe and uncomfortable”. Guess what? Sometimes school sucks. > [@](#): > > What I don’t get is why people give them grief for this. Let’s say you get together with your friends and want to have a place where no one makes you feel bad for drinking to excess and getting rowdy. If someone comes in and treats you badly because you drink, you would get upset, right? Someone gives me grief for acting like an asshole, then well, it’s my own fucking fault. > [@](#): > > So some gay people want to get together and have a “no homophobia allowed” rule. Why is that something to make fun of? Or, heck, let’s say all the minorities get together and have a “no bigotry” rule. Why does that bother you? This wasn’t homophobia. > [@](#): > > A “safe space” is not a bad concept. You may disagree with their rules, but the idea of a place where you can go and get away from the bigotry you face everywhere else is not a bad idea. Hearing ideas you disagree with isn’t bigotry. If that’s how you feel, start a club. Should a school be free of bigotry, as in outright harassment? Of course. I believe students should have a right to be safe from assault and harassment. But just having to deal with ordinary douchebags? Hey kids, welcome to Life 101. Seeing the words “Trump 2016” written in fucking _chalk_, which will wash away when it rains, is not “bigotry”. What do these kids do when they see a Trump sticker on someone’s car? They may not like Donald Trump – I certainly don’t. But their classmates have a right to express their support of him. Dude’s running for president. Last time I checked, college is usually when your ideas are supposed to be challenged. Otherwise, these kids are no different from some conservative religious kid who wants to be exempt from assignments that expose them to material they find “objectional”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/63 "2016-03-26T00:37:26Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The same reason you think you have the right to be comfortable in your own house and yard. The students are championing for a place where they can get away from the real world for a while. A place where people who are regularly face bigotry all the time can get away from it for a while. A place where they don’t constantly be on their guard. > > They have to say “safe and comfortable” because all you guys keep making fun of them for saying “safe spaces” when they aren’t in any real danger. > > What I don’t get is why people give them grief for this. Let’s say you get together with your friends and want to have a place where no one makes you feel bad for drinking to excess and getting rowdy. If someone comes in and treats you badly because you drink, you would get upset, right? > > So some gay people want to get together and have a “no homophobia allowed” rule. Why is that something to make fun of? Or, heck, let’s say all the minorities get together and have a “no bigotry” rule. Why does that bother you? > > This is why the Snopes article is useful. It points out how all the blustery hate articles are just that. They are no different than the “Obama is a Muslim” Facebook posts. They are deliberately misstating facts to work people up into a tizzy. > > The shit about safe spaces is MRA bullshit. The crap you believe about them is stuff created by their opposition. I don’t know why you fall for it. > > A “safe space” is not a bad concept. You may disagree with their rules, but the idea of a place where you can go and get away from the bigotry you face everywhere else is not a bad idea. > > And, before some of you pull out the “lecture” bullshit, let me remind you that this is just like hundreds of other posts. It’s not some horrible thing because I _gasp_ disagree with you, and try to explain my point of view. Pffft. They want to liven in an echo chamber. Sorry, no go. College is especially the place you get your ideas challenged. No one is going into their dorm rooms and plastering Trump stickers over their desks. It’s a public space, and it’s going to reflect the ideas of the general public, not the special snowflakes who need a “safe space”. Where does anyone even learn to talk like that? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/64 "2016-03-26T10:44:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Let’s say you get together with your friends and want to have a place where no one makes you feel bad for drinking to excess and getting rowdy. If someone comes in and treats you badly because you drink, you would get upset, right? No. We’d kick their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/65 "2016-03-26T13:50:04Z")
[Conor Friedersdorf has a good bit on this.](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/a-letter-to-emory-please-stop-fueling-trumpism/475356/) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/66 "2016-03-26T19:53:56Z")
They’re even making fun of these kids on _The Daily Show_. I think that should tell you something. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/67 "2016-03-26T21:35:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The same reason you think you have the right to be comfortable in your own house and yard. The students are championing for a place where they can get away from the real world for a while. A place where people who are regularly face bigotry all the time can get away from it for a while. A place where they don’t constantly be on their guard. The problem here is that you’re falling into the same trap (for a different reason) as some conservatives who complain about colleges and universities. Too many people in the United States, often conservatives, ridicule or dismiss a lot of what goes on at colleges and universities because it’s not the “real world,” because it allegedly doesn’t prepare students for the “real world,” etc. etc. As someone who teaches at a university, i think that’s a load of bullshit. Universities are full of the same problems and challenges and opportunities as the so-called “real world.” Have to take a class that you don’t want to take, in order to fulfill your graduation requirements? Bad luck. In the “real world” there will be plenty of times when you have to do things that you don’t want to do. Don’t like the fact that you’re required to attend a certain number of class meetings in order to pass the course? Suck it up, crybaby. In the “real world,” your boss is going to expect you to turn up if you want that paycheck. Think it’s unfair that your grade was penalized for handing your term paper in late? Well, there are similar consequences in the “real world.” Don’t like the fact that people don’t share your political views, or support people that you dislike? Again, deal with it. That’s how the “real world” works, and we should be preparing students for that in our colleges and universities. That doesn’t mean that we encourage abuse or hate speech or incivility. We should be creating an environment where everyone recognizes that differences of opinions and ideology and politics and practices exist, where we can discuss these things rationally, and where we accept that we won’t always change one another’s minds. I do think it’s appropriate for universities, in some settings, to discourage certain types of expression—even if such expression is not formally or legally banned—because some types of expression actually undermine the rational discussion and thoughtful exchange of ideas that universities are supposed to foster. But the default position should be to encourage an airing of views, and to confront unpleasant or offensive ideas and expressions by demonstrating why they are ignorant or offensive or whatever, rather than yelling at people to just shut up already. I understand that i make this observation as someone who has no real personal experience of being part of a marginalized group. As a straight, white, middle-class, well-educated man, i’m pretty much immune to feeling threatened or degraded by insults. There is nothing you can call me that will affect me the way that “nigger” affects a black person, or “faggot” affects a gay person, or whatever. Because of that, it’s easy for me to say that people need to value open dialog over the idea of shutting down speech that makes them uncomfortable. And some of my friends on the left argue that the sort of call that i’m making here, for free and open speech, actually serves to maintain current social and political hierarchies, and keep marginalized groups like racial minorities and women and LGBT people subordinated. I understand why they say this, and i find some of their arguments compelling. It’s easy for me to say that black students at Yale (to take a recent case) should not call for professors who defend the wearing of racially insensitive Halloween costumes to resign. I think we need to respect and acknowledge that seeing stuff like this can be genuinely upsetting for people who already feel like they get a raw deal in society, from police, for employers, from fellow students, etc., etc. But for me, it’s going too far to suggest, as quite a few seem to be doing these days, that you have a right not to be exposed to any speech or any opinion that you find upsetting or offensive or inappropriate. And while colleges and universities do have an obligation to ensure the safety of their students, failing to delete a Trump chalking on a sidewalk is not an abrogation of that responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/68 "2016-03-28T10:06:24Z")
I don’t think they are precious snowflakes. I think, on the basis of my own university education, that they were having fun, being dickheads, trying things out. They were expressing their imaturity and inexperience and imortality and freedom from consequences in the time-honoured way of the young, and the Administration rolled them over and scratched behind their ears and cashed their tuition cheques. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/69 "2016-03-28T15:45:25Z")
> [@Richard Parker](#): > > It is foolish to imagine that you can draw a consistent line between hate speech and extreme political speech. Trump is the perfect example of an inhabitant of the gray area in between. If the chalk had been “David Duke 2016” would that be OK? How about “No more Muslim immigrants?” > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Seriously? You’re equating supporting an actual political candidate, asshole that he may be, to saying “No Muslims”? :dubious: No, I wasn’t equating them. I was pointing out that there is a spectrum rather than categories. That said, it is rather bizarre for you to conclude that support for Trump cannot count as hate speech while quoting Trump can. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Christ, what do these kids do when they see a Trump bumpersticker, or turn on the TV, wet themselves? :smack: And this comment makes me think maybe you misread my post altogether. My point was that no so-called “hate speech” ought to be censored. I would say “Christ, what do these kids do when they see a chalk swastika, wet themselves?” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/70 "2016-03-30T18:03:25Z")
I’m bumping this thread because another instance of hatred, racism and violence has occurred. > [@](#): > > “This morning, a Mexican-American Scripps student woke up to find her whiteboard vandalized with the phrase ‘#Trump2016.’ This racist act is completely unacceptable,” > **[New round of chalkings at Emory and new debate on pro-Trump message at Scripps](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/28/new-round-chalkings-emory-and-new-debate-pro-trump-message-scripps)** > > Emory students draw images related to all the presidential candidates, seeking to promote free speech; Scripps student government leader sets off debate by condemning "Trump 2016" note written on student's whiteboard. The rest of the email is in the article. When will the holocaust end? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/71 "2016-03-30T20:07:57Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I’m bumping this thread because another instance of hatred, racism and violence has occurred. > > The rest of the email is in the article. > > When will the holocaust end? (post shortened) Oh, the humanity! I’m beginning to believe that all students should go for counseling before they go to college/university. Family counseling with their parents. _Mental and emotional health of our students are our top concern. I hope you will resources available for our students. At Scripps, you can contact your Primary Contact Dean (PCDs) or the Academic Resources and Services Office, as well as the Chaplains office or Monsour Counseling. This is not the inclusive, safe and welcoming community that we have been striving so hard to create. -MinJoo Kim_ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/72 "2016-03-30T20:19:22Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Somebody should start a website which keeps a list of all the ridiculous cry-baby snowflake protests on campuses. The site should be embedded in all the job-hunting sites, (like monster dot com, etc), so that they scan the list along with all the resumes . > > And then employers should state that if your resume includes a degree from any of the listed cry-baby campuses, they will _NOT_ read it. > > Like those policy notices “We test for drugs”. > But this one would say “We test for stupid snowflakes”. Just as there’s a thread on this site of Stupid Republican Idea of the Day (which I follow with great amusement), maybe there should be a Special Snowflake’s Safe Space Threatened by Micro-aggression Trigger of the Day thread. god…I spent my college years strolling by spray-painted graffiti encouraging us to rise up, smash the state, off the pigs… and somehow I survived. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/73 "2016-03-30T22:06:46Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I’m bumping this thread because another instance of hatred, racism and violence has occurred. > > > [@](#): > > > > “This morning, a Mexican-American Scripps student woke up to find her whiteboard vandalized with the phrase ‘#Trump2016.’ This racist act is completely unacceptable,” > > [New round of chalkings at Emory and new debate on pro-Trump message at Scripps](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/28/new-round-chalkings-emory-and-new-debate-pro-trump-message-scripps) > > The rest of the email is in the article. > > When will the holocaust end? Actually, targetting a specific person of Mexican heritage with your Trump message _is_ pretty damn jerkish. That’s assuming it was just the board by her own door, not every board in the corridor. A bit pointed, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/74 "2016-03-30T22:32:36Z")
I wonder if the whiteboard was vandalized with whiteboard marker. If so, the remedy is fortunately sitting there in the tray underneath the board. Jerkish, definitely…racist, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/75 "2016-03-31T00:04:56Z")
Go find their white board and write Sanders 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/76 "2016-03-31T03:34:10Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Actually, targetting a specific person of Mexican heritage with your Trump message _is_ pretty damn jerkish. That’s assuming it was just the board by her own door, not every board in the corridor. A bit pointed, don’t you think? Yes, if you buy into the lie that the media/liberal/conservativess are portraying that Trump said **ALL** Mexicans are rapists and murderers. If you actually follow reality you would know that is not what he said. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/77 "2016-03-31T03:42:54Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Yes, if you buy into the lie that the media/liberal/conservativess are portraying that Trump said **ALL** Mexicans are rapists and murderers. If you actually follow reality you would know that is not what he said. Yeah, he said of the drug smugglers and rapists and murderers that some are good people. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/78 "2016-03-31T03:59:53Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Yes, if you buy into the lie that the media/liberal/conservativess are portraying that Trump said **ALL** Mexicans are rapists and murderers. If you actually follow reality you would know that is not what he said. True. He only said that the majority of the Mexicans who were coming to the United States were drug dealers, criminals, and rapists. Presumably the non-criminals were content to stay in Mexico. [QUOTE=Donald Trump] “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” [/QUOTE] “Some” suggests that good Mexican immigrants are a distinct minority. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/79 "2016-03-31T04:06:19Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Yes, if you buy into the lie that the media/liberal/conservativess are portraying that Trump said **ALL** Mexicans are rapists and murderers. If you actually follow reality you would know that is not what he said. He started by saying that all illegal immigrants were criminals. Then he backed up and reversed himself. It isn’t a lie that he said it. He just, in usual Trump fashion, flip-flopped immediately. He does this a lot. “Yes. No.” ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025/80 "2016-03-31T12:36:27Z")
I think there is a marked difference between the nonsense at Emory and this whiteboard thing. In specifically targeting a Mexican-American’s whiteboard, it goes from an expression of free speech or political support to something a lot closer to painting a swastika on a Jewish store window in early 1930’s Germany. This assuming that this was the only whiteboard this happened to. If it was all the whiteboards in a dorm, or even a floor, it is back to Emory territory. It’s the specific targeting that changes what this is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chalk-on-the-sidewalk-boo-hoo-hoo/750025.md?page=5)