# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/261 "2014-05-02T00:49:39Z")
I think it’s an anniversary show, why else would Ed be wearing a tux? Maybe new years eve? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/262 "2014-05-02T00:51:07Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > I am approaching this from a different angle. Tomorrow I am calling Hollywood Reporter to find out who would have access to archival photos and then I am emailing the pic to whoever that is. I may do the same for Variety, et al. I am also going to try to track down Willow2US. A friend of mine is/was certain the man is Mel Ferrar. He is friends with Ferrar’s daughter. I think he is wrong. In context, he does not ‘fit’. Ha! Mel was my guess. (Ferrer, anyway.) But, seriously: if you do get a conclusive answer from your efforts, you will be a hero to many of us! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/263 "2014-05-02T00:58:00Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Also, why does the green shag carpet come up the side of the couch (there between Robert Young and Mystery Man)? I’m not sure that is carpet. Looks more like vegetation. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/264 "2014-05-02T01:09:07Z")
Don’t forget that Carson periodically broadcast his show from L.A. for some years prior to the permanent move and the set (and the appearances) possibly predate the permanent move. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/265 "2014-05-02T01:19:39Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > I’m not sure that is carpet. Looks more like vegetation. Yeah. Definitely not a normal part of the set if you ask Dr. Zaius. [http://cdn.chud.com/9/9d/350x700px-LL-9da98775\_vlcsnap-2013-02-28-16h35m31s24.png](http://cdn.chud.com/9/9d/350x700px-LL-9da98775_vlcsnap-2013-02-28-16h35m31s24.png) ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Patterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ec9cab/32.png) [@Miss\_Patterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Patterson)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/266 "2014-05-02T01:29:42Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Aw, heck no, it doesn’t. Of all the names that have been offered so far, Dick Cavett is probably the absolute worst candidate–and that’s saying something because some of the names have been absolute turkeys. Actually not. New York’s Mayor Lindsay is the worst guess so far. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/267 "2014-05-02T02:39:06Z")
> [@choie](#): > > [People already have.](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202271650286824&set=o.116482595050178&type=1) No reply yet. She’s hugely active on Twitter, that might be a more visible option. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/268 "2014-05-02T02:46:51Z")
I don’t guess it is relevant but the picture looks a lot like it is a black and white shot that has been colored. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/269 "2014-05-02T03:11:52Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > I think it’s an anniversary show, why else would Ed be wearing a tux? Maybe new years eve? That’s a very good point. So, anniversary show or New Year’s eve or something like that. Both the 10th and 15th anniversary shows are online, and it’s neither of those. I also found a wikipedia list of episodes, and none of the New Year’s Eve episodes in the 70’s look like a hit. Anyone else remember occasions when everyone on the show would dress in a tux? Still, I wonder if it’s coincidental that everyone on that set we have identified (except for Glenn Campbell) was nominated for a Golden Globe in the same year. Also, I found a photo of Carol Burnett wearing what looks like same outfit, with choker and earrings. I found that by googling “Carol Burnett 1972”, but really it could be from any of the years in the 1970’s, I guess. But if we could figure out where this photo was taken, it would be a huge clue: [Carol Burnett](http://ow.ly/i/5mN3B) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/270 "2014-05-02T03:34:21Z")
It’s [this guy](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8KxQg_NoiDs/Um1cBbQ388I/AAAAAAAADtM/Uhnyzvy4glQ/s1600/1the+movie-Laura+Carmichael+as+Lady+Edith+Crawley+and+Charles+Edwards+as+Michael+Gregson.jpg) sitting with Lady Edith. Name of Charles Edwards. Ok. Not him. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/271 "2014-05-02T03:54:16Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > I’m not sure that is carpet. Looks more like vegetation. The only way to know for sure is to do a merge a pic of the carpet with a pic of some vegetation. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/272 "2014-05-02T04:26:17Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Also, I found a photo of Carol Burnett wearing what looks like same outfit, with choker and earrings. I found that by googling “Carol Burnett 1972”, but really it could be from any of the years in the 1970’s, I guess. But if we could figure out where this photo was taken, it would be a huge clue: > > [Carol Burnett](http://ow.ly/i/5mN3B) [This](http://a2.files.saymedia-content.com/image/upload/c_fit,q_70,w_630/MTE5NDg0MDU0OTA5NzE1OTgz.jpg) appears to be the full picture that the picture you found was cropped out of. Unless she is wearing a jacket in the mystery picture, that’s not the same outfit. [Here](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-actress-comedian-and-singer-carol-burnett-circa-news-photo/82016760) is the original source of the picture. The caption says it was taken “circa 1965.” ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/273 "2014-05-02T05:02:52Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > I am approaching this from a different angle. Tomorrow I am calling Hollywood Reporter to find out who would have access to archival photos and then I am emailing the pic to whoever that is. I may do the same for Variety, et al. I am also going to try to track down Willow2US. A friend of mine is/was certain the man is Mel Ferrar. He is friends with Ferrar’s daughter. I think he is wrong. In context, he does not ‘fit’. Definitely not Mel Ferrer. [Ferrer](https://www.google.com/search?q=mel+ferrer+photos&biw=1460&bih=920&tbm=isch&imgil=TCsbjazrQFe6GM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQEWxeukkftHtN7r24mpH9K0lChmERQwmqeIAlQPSjvAzB36FLyag%253B843%253B1106%253Bp10_pvIbP6FUQM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FMel_Ferrer&source=iu&usg=__K04IdnhQo-TT0AH9bLlZkOdByfc%3D&sa=X&ei=3SVjU_eiIM32oAS92YE4&ved=0CCgQ9QEwAA#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=TCsbjazrQFe6GM%253A%3Bp10_pvIbP6FUQM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fupload.wikimedia.org%252Fwikipedia%252Fcommons%252F1%252F1f%252FMel_Ferrer_-_1960.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fen.wikipedia.org%252Fwiki%252FMel_Ferrer%3B843%3B1106) had a much wider and fuller mouth than Mystery Man. Visually Peter Mark Richman is the closest, but somehow it still doesn’t look right. What’s killing me is that the guy somehow looks familiar. I was around and could have been watching The Tonight Show in that era, but I rarely stayed up that late even then. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/274 "2014-05-02T05:35:31Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > What’s killing me is that the guy somehow looks familiar. It’s obviously not him, but something about his face keeps making me think of Bob Newhart. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/275 "2014-05-02T06:48:56Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > [This](http://a2.files.saymedia-content.com/image/upload/c_fit,q_70,w_630/MTE5NDg0MDU0OTA5NzE1OTgz.jpg) appears to be the full picture that the picture you found was cropped out of. Unless she is wearing a jacket in the mystery picture, that’s not the same outfit. > > [Here](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/american-actress-comedian-and-singer-carol-burnett-circa-news-photo/82016760) is the original source of the picture. The caption says it was taken “circa 1965.” Yeah, you’re right. Darn. But the similar hairstyle makes me think the show in question was earlier than 1972. Also, I think Glenn Campbell is part of the group. He’s not wearing a tux, but he is in a black suit and tie, and back then he was normally dressed somewhat ‘country’. So, sticking with the ‘after awards’ theme, I had a look at the Emmy awards in 1970. James Brolin won for “Marcus Welby” Robert Young also won for Marcus Welby Karen Valentine won for “Room 222” The Glenn Campbell Goodtime Hour was nominated for an Emmy Marlo Thomas was nominated for “That Girl” Danny Thomas was nominated for “The Mod Squad” The Carol Burnett Show was nominated Everyone on that show either won or was nominated for an Emmy. And Carson did do a few episodes in Burbank that year, and it would make sense that he would do one there after the Emmy awards. It might also explain why Ed was in a Tux if they all went to the awards show. Unfortunately, I believe there are a lot of episodes of the show lost to history from that era. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/276 "2014-05-02T06:59:07Z")
I’ve looked everywhere I can think of, I’m hoping someone can find the original photo with a list of names. Or, maybe another photo taken a few seconds before or after the one we have and MM doesn’t have his head turned. I have a feeling if we could see him turn straight to the camera we’d all say “oh, yea that’s …” ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/277 "2014-05-02T07:33:06Z")
Ricardo Montalban…with something going on with his hair color. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/278 "2014-05-02T08:05:07Z")
> [@choie](#): > > BTW, how sure are you that this is a show devoted to the Emmys? Because I found a few newspaper listings dated November 11 for the Tonight Show ([here’s a sample from the Hutchinson News in Kansas](http://newspaperarchive.com/us/kansas/hutchinson/hutchinson-news/1970/11-07/page-26) – zoom in for the 10:30pm listing) for an episode devoted to the \*Photoplay \*Awards, with guests John Wayne, Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Karen Valentine, Carol Burnett, James Brolin, Robert Young, Bette Davis, and Glen Campbell. You can also see a _TV Guide_ listing for that date [from their Eastern Virginia edition](http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?615072-Retro-Eastern-Virginia-Wednesday-November-11-1970) (scroll to WAVY Ch. 10 Norfolk for the 11:30pm listing). > > Obviously the guy in question is not John Wayne, Bette Davis, or Glen Campbell. 🙂 But considering this group of people otherwise matches the photograph, this may help narrow things down. Maybe a producer from \*Photoplay \* (which, for you youngsters out there, was an early version of _Us_ or _People_) or something? > > (I should mention that the 50th Annual \*Photoplay \*Awards were hosted on the Glen Campbell show, which possibly explains his inclusion.) I should have read the earlier parts of the thread more carefully. This is very compelling. Unfortunately, it’s damned near impossible to find anything about the Photoplay awards online. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/279 "2014-05-02T08:05:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, you’re right. Darn. But the similar hairstyle makes me think the show in question was earlier than 1972. > > … > > So, sticking with the ‘after awards’ theme, I had a look at the Emmy awards in 1970. > > … > > Everyone on that show either won or was nominated for an Emmy. Yes, that has already been established. They were also all nominated for Golden Globes that year. But what has also been established is the set they’re on did not start to be used for the show until 1972, but then continued to be used up until 1976. The only way that it would be used earlier is if they built the set as the Burbank temporary location for Hollywood-centred episodes, then when the show moved from New York to LA they subsequently used the same set, desk, carpet, couch, chairs, everything, permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/280 "2014-05-02T08:40:12Z")
Also, enlarge the photo face of the mystery man and look closely at the mouth. I believe we are seeing a distortion/aberration of the man’s real mouth. What looks like the far left side of the mouth (his right) is actually part of a background leaf. There also appears to be a shadow just above the right side (his left) his mouth, making it look like he is grinning, when in fact that side of the mouth is slightly down-turned. Compare the original photo, to my retouched version, which I believe is a more accurate representation: [Retouched MM](http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f183/docdanz/retouch_mm_zps365456ae.jpg) Looks even more like Montalban, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=15)