# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/421 "2014-05-03T22:37:01Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > John Wayne received the Gold Medal for Favorite Star of the Year. Odd that this guy is in there but he’s not. Wayne was in Mexico during the entire month of November 1970 filming _Big Jake_. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/422 "2014-05-03T22:45:23Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Look at actual pages from “TV Guide” of the period. (An image search for “TV Guide page” is at ["TV Guide page" - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22TV+Guide+page%22&lr=&hl=en&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=gm1lU_uxH7PQsQTW-oCwCA&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1013&bih=646#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=VYdkUvTtLQDpOM%253A%3BNUCdE1Ds2NIhbM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dougquick.com%252Fwbln_tvg_finaldaylistings6-5-58.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.dougquick.com%252Fwblnbloomington2.html%3B800%3B602) > > Actual pages provide better evidence as to the quality of the match of your message-board-link (with the typed ‘tv listings’) to the actual 1970/71-era TV Guide, than do your memories. > > (And _much_ better evidence than is provided by your observations about DVRs.) > The bottom line: it doesn’t make sense to take what someone has typed on a message board as being Actual Proof Of What Was In The _TV Guide_ For Date \_\_\_\_\_\_. > > What people type isn’t proof of anything (except that they _can_ type, I guess). I don’t know what you think you’re seeing, but that page from TV guide is exactly what I remember, and plenty of shows on it have no description whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/423 "2014-05-03T23:00:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t know what you think you’re seeing, but that page from TV guide is exactly what I remember, and plenty of shows on it have no description whatsoever. The point was not _'did TV Guide publish a description for every show?_’ That is not the issue and that is not the claim we’re addressing. The point was, instead: does the message-board post to which you linked constitute a transcription of what would have been in _TV Guide_ for the night in question? (Thus constituting evidence of what actually occurred on the Tonight Show that night.) OR is it just one person’s typed list of some shows, some of which are appended with the person’s own opinions? As with the “Dan August” description, purportedly from a 1971 issue of _TV Guide_: _10 PM Dan August (unsuccessful in its original run, it was a smash hit when CBS reran it in 1973, by which time Burt Reynolds had become a superstar)_ Look at your message-board guy’s typing for the prime-time hours. Then look at any page from a 1970 or 1971 _TV Guide_ for prime-time. As we can see, the message-board post does not constitute evidence of what was actually broadcast on that night. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/424 "2014-05-03T23:25:33Z")
Gosh, I hope no one posting on this thread is an on-duty air traffic controller or a surgeon or something. OTOH, I hear the crime rate has dropped precipitously over the last couple of days in major metropolitan areas. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/425 "2014-05-03T23:42:03Z")
I have no hope of being any assistance in identifying MM. I wasn’t around at the time of the photograph and can’t really recognize people, anyhow. But in an attempt to get things back on track, I checked out the TV listings[in my local (Pittsburgh) paper for November 11, 1970](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JNEbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ilAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7501%2C5857449): > [@](#): > > 6,7,11-TONIGHT \*Color > Photoplay Magazine awards with John Wayne, Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Karen Valentine, Carol Burnett, James Brolin, Robert Young, Glen Cambell. The show happened. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/426 "2014-05-03T23:55:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Gosh, I hope no one posting on this thread is an on-duty air traffic controller or a surgeon or something. Or a police officer, or any other person who may need to identify someone in court, because christ-all-fucking-mighty. ---
**Author:** ![Clint\_O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Clint\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clint_O)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/427 "2014-05-04T00:06:52Z")
Someone early in the thread mentioned British, and that’s when I thought of him. The hair color is right, and he would have been the right age. I’m not sure why he would have been on the Tonight Show circa 1970… ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/428 "2014-05-04T00:16:25Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 6,7,11-TONIGHT \*Color > > Photoplay Magazine awards with John Wayne, Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Karen Valentine, Carol Burnett, James Brolin, Robert Young, Glen Cambell. > > The show happened. That settles it. It’s John Wayne. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/429 "2014-05-04T00:39:39Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > That settles it. It’s John Wayne. 😃 Don’t be ridiculous. It’s not John Wayne. It’s his son [Patrick Wayne](http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Patrick+Wayne+John+Wayne+Cancer+Institutes+eRMBPc9zseKl.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/430 "2014-05-04T00:46:28Z")
If someone’s obsessed enough to track it down, according to[this ended Ebay auction](http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOTOPLAY-magazine-March-1970-RICHARD-BURTON-GENEVIEVE-BUJOLD-cover-/161260864653?pt=UK_Magazines), the March 1970 edition of Photoplay Magazine was the one that had the voting for the 1969 awards. I assume it would have a list of all the nominees to compare against the photo. I don’t know if you can assume the voting form would still be in there, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/431 "2014-05-04T00:56:04Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > I have no hope of being any assistance in identifying MM. I wasn’t around at the time of the photograph and can’t really recognize people, anyhow. But in an attempt to get things back on track, I checked out the TV listings[in my local (Pittsburgh) paper for November 11, 1970](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JNEbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ilAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7501%2C5857449): > > The show happened. I hadn’t been reading this thread until this page, but I have access to old issues of the _New York Times_ through ProQuest Historical Newspapers. I just confirmed that they have a practically identical listing for Nov. 11, 1970: > [@](#): > > **11:30 (4)** Tonight: With Johnny Carson, host; Photoplay Magazine awards with John Wayne, Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Karen Valentine, Carol Burnett, James Brolin, Robert Young, Glen Cambell ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/432 "2014-05-04T01:25:23Z")
I hope it’s not the Devil. I think this will only be resolved by viewing the episode. Probably start by looking at the November 11, 1970 episode. Do all these episodes still exist? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/433 "2014-05-04T01:39:05Z")
I remember reading that all of Johnny’s early shows were recorded over by some NBC technician in an effort to conserve videotape. So no Johnny, but plenty of Mannix. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/434 "2014-05-04T01:55:18Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > I hope it’s not the Devil. > > I think this will only be resolved by viewing the episode. > Probably start by looking at the November 11, 1970 episode. > Do all these episodes still exist? There’s[a Johnny Carson channel on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/user/johnnycarson) that’s always adding to it’s collection of downloaded Tonight Show episodes. Unfortunately, the episode in question is from November 1970 and most the Tonight Shows before 1972 have been erased. If I may go way off topic for a moment, this thread, with its links to old TV listings from the second week of November 1970, has proved to be a Proustian experience for me. I can now exactly pinpoint where I was and what I was doing at that stage of my very young life during that week. I was also able to finally identify a movie from which all I previously remembered was one scene. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/435 "2014-05-04T02:55:12Z")
According to [another closed auction from the same Ebay seller](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTOPLAY-magazine-June-1970-CANDICE-BERGEN-BEKIM-FEHMIU-cover-/160989146023), the 1969 Photoplay Award winners were listed in the June 1970 issue of the magazine. I can’t pinpoint where I was anytime in 1970 because I wasn’t anywhere yet. But I did come across a newspaper article from May of 1970 that quoted then Secretary of HUD George Romney (Mitt’s dad) saying that [the U.S. was moving toward a revolution](http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2UUgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=EpwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6348%2C3806729). That was weird. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/436 "2014-05-04T03:14:55Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > According to [another closed auction from the same Ebay seller](http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOTOPLAY-magazine-June-1970-CANDICE-BERGEN-BEKIM-FEHMIU-cover-/160989146023), the 1969 Photoplay Award winners were listed in the June 1970 issue of the magazine. On page 22 according to one expired auction! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/437 "2014-05-04T03:17:36Z")
If we’re through arguing about whether the photo, the person or the Tonight show actually existed, I’d like to offer a suggestion. [Edward Mulhare.](https://www.google.com/search?q=edward+mulhare&rlz=1C1FLDB_enUS562US562&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Eq9lU-X8OYSwyAT2jYLwCQ&ved=0CKMBEIke&biw=1600&bih=763) Mulhare was starring on _The Ghost and Mrs. Muir_ at the time, and in fact, had been nominated for an Emmy in 1969, so he at least was award-caliber. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/438 "2014-05-04T04:16:49Z")
He also bears a resemblance to [Hugh O’Brian](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-A57eFjmMuck/UZL4d3Yfu9I/AAAAAAAAAEw/5-qGNjiAXKg/s1600/Hugh_OBrian.jpg), but I couldn’t find anything he might have done in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/439 "2014-05-04T04:21:45Z")
> [@VernWinterbottom](#): > > For those of you just joining us on page 8, here’s the guy, in a [few different hues](https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/970281_10202982728322004_3720980939231680098_n.jpg). That’s it! His name is Hugh! ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/440 "2014-05-04T04:23:36Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I believe he’s British, based on his demeanor. > > Except for the British part and the whole time travel thing, [this](https://www.google.com/search?q=alan+tudyk) is who I think it is. Anyone else see a resemblance? Too bad you can’t see his teeth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=23)