# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/441 "2014-05-04T04:53:36Z")
[Charles Dance](https://www.google.com/search?q=charles+dance&biw=1460&bih=920&tbm=isch&imgil=WH3rUEqY1RAtpM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSxXEimHDuoDDhGaZqOIZk5b5c_0y1XIdQRKTBwiSCdpP-rrDDg%253B1063%253B1341%253BMkkyQp4RR07YVM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fmans-womans.com%25252Fcharles-dance.html&source=iu&usg=__RRs_pKigvdCq3IgzrUnLgic3vMI%3D&sa=X&ei=2cRlU5-AGIHyoASO-oH4Bg&sqi=2&ved=0CJcBEP4dMAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=WH3rUEqY1RAtpM%253A%3BMkkyQp4RR07YVM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmans-womans.com%252Fimages1%252Fcharles-dance-9.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmans-womans.com%252Fcharles-dance.html%3B1063%3B1341) does bear a strong resemblance (high hairline part, cleft chin, shape of nose) but he would only have been 24 or 25 in 1970, and that seems too young for the MM in the photo. [Edward Mulhare](https://www.google.com/search?q=edward+mulhare&biw=1460&bih=920&tbm=isch&imgil=t4Iyo6ksoVmMVM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcQCK9ET4qw2lG8VCRflCCGaje3g0uGvpbtyuNYLL2teNVD7aWA9kQ%253B261%253B312%253BvFqmxn7bPs9biM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tvrage.com%25252Fperson%25252Fid-15716%25252FEdward%2525252BMulhare&source=iu&usg=__jcUwofo_ub_oUr6NdzIUpinhqI0%3D&sa=X&ei=N8VlU7yxBc2IogTsmoD4CQ&sqi=2&ved=0CJMBEP4dMA4#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=t4Iyo6ksoVmMVM%253A%3BvFqmxn7bPs9biM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimages.tvrage.com%252Fpeople%252F6%252F15716.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.tvrage.com%252Fperson%252Fid-15716%252FEdward%252BMulhare%3B261%3B312), on the other hand, would have been 47 or so, which is possible. However, MM seems thinner than Mulhare, Mulhare seems to have had an even higher and wider part in his hair, and the shape of the face doesn’t seem quite right. Even as a young man, Mulhare didn’t seem to have that prominently tapering jawline. Another thing to look at is the ear that is showing. MM’s ear is quite round, while Dance’s is tapered down to the earlobe. Also, IMDB shows Dance’s earliest credit as a British TV show in 1974. If the proposed date is anywhere near right, that probably lets him out. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/442 "2014-05-04T05:11:41Z")
[Gary Morton](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/392165080024495197/) was on the 23rd Emmies. He was married to Lucille Ball. StG ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/443 "2014-05-04T05:41:02Z")
> [@rucciface](#): > > I’m just sure it’s Peter Mark Richman…the moment I looked at the photo, I thought “I know exactly who that is, but can’t remember where I’ve seen him.” Reading the thread, post #4 gave me the name. > > The actor played Chrissy’s reverend father on “Three’s Company”. That’s where I’ve seen him. What possible reason could he have to deny it if it were he? “Gee, I’m on a set with a lot of famous actors but I’ll deny it in the future!” ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/444 "2014-05-04T05:42:54Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > [Gary Morton](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/392165080024495197/) was on the 23rd Emmies. He was married to Lucille Ball. > > StG I heard he had a ball on his honeymoon. ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/445 "2014-05-04T05:45:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous. It’s not John Wayne. It’s his son [Patrick Wayne](http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Patrick+Wayne+John+Wayne+Cancer+Institutes+eRMBPc9zseKl.jpg). Looks more like Wayne Newton. ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/446 "2014-05-04T05:54:02Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Going only by the pictures I would have sworn that was Martin Landau. Having been a fan of both \*Mission: Impossible \*(before the pic) and _Space: 1999_ (after the pic) I can say with 99.9982 % assurance it is NOT Martin Landau. ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/447 "2014-05-04T05:58:57Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Yes. He looks at Dean Martin and Bob Hope, whom he followed on the show, and says “Did you ever feel like the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown shoes?” > > Have you watched the clip? :dubious: Later, after I posted the question. :smack: Not everybody has a fast internet connection suitable for videos. Ask first, watch later. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/448 "2014-05-04T06:04:06Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Question about Richman’s daughter: All she said was “No, that’s not my father”? On what does she base this belief? Childhood memories? Scrapbook collections? Could she have asked dad himself? Maybe she looked at the pic. How would she know what her father looked like? ---
**Author:** ![Clint\_O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@Clint\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clint_O)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/449 "2014-05-04T06:14:28Z")
Thanks for the analysis. I agree that since Dance was born in '46 he would have been very young at the time. I also looked at his IMDB credits and didn’t see anything prior to '74 or so… ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/450 "2014-05-04T06:53:38Z")
> [@Wiseguy70005](#): > > Maybe she looked at the pic. How would she know what her father looked like? Knowing how her father looked in 1970 would presumably count as a childhood memory, no? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/451 "2014-05-04T07:24:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Perhaps you need to spell out exactly what you think the hoax is, and why someone might have done it. ‘Just to mess with people’ isn’t really very useful, as you can trot that out any time anyone can’t be identified in a photo, or for any other mystery. You need some kind of motive, and you need some evidence that leads to the hoax as a reasonable explanation, other than that you managed to concoct a story. Anyone can do that for anything. I will now admit to having attempted a photo hoax some nine or ten years ago. I took a picture of a woman posing in a T-shirt and nothing else, and added to the wall behind her images of three paintings known to have been stolen - a Rembrandt and a Vermeer taken from the Isabella Stewart Gardener Museum in Boston in 1990 (never found), and a portrait of a woman called “Eileen” that went missing from the Museum of Bad Art, also in greater Boston (since recovered). Since I’d heard that some theorized the Gardener thefts were connected to the Irish Republican Army, I added an IRA logo to the woman’s T-shirt. Then I posted the result to an amateur porn site, and waited to see if anyone would notice. Nobody did, and eventually the site cleared out all its old postings and started fresh. I mention this only because I’m the sort of person who might try a stunt like this, for my own amusement and with no guarantee anything would ever come of it, which it didn’t. (I won’t post the before/after images here, they are not safe for work, but if anyone asks…) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/452 "2014-05-04T09:55:04Z")
So nobody reading this thread has access to a large library? No university students, no professors, no staff? [The St. Paul library disposed of their copies of Photoplay previous to 1970 last month](http://blogs.twincities.com/cityhallscoop/2014/04/02/st-paul-library-system-ditches-photoplay-magazine-from-1930s-through-1960s-should-we-care/). I don’t know if this implies that they still have copies from the 1970s. I’m sure this isn’t a rare or uncommon thing for libraries to have, but not all of them post their catalogs online for the public to search. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/453 "2014-05-04T10:58:38Z")
> [@Wiseguy70005](#): > > Having been a fan of both \*Mission: Impossible \*(before the pic) and _Space: 1999_ (after the pic) I can say with 99.9982 % assurance it is NOT Martin Landau. I meant the Google pics of Peter Mark Richman. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/454 "2014-05-04T11:16:32Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Either this is a very trimmed down version of Gobel’s appearance, or I’m thinking of another one where he rambled on about being in the Army Air Defense Corps during WWII and stationed the whole time in Oklahoma. (“We were good. No Japanese plane ever got past Albuquerque.”) Tulsa. “No Japanese zero ever got past Tulsa.” Which actually makes more sense if he was stationed in Oklahoma. According to _ **The Classic Hollywood Squares** _ site, he was a USAAF flight instructor. Just wanted to clear that up before someone else pounced on it. That is all! Carry on! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/455 "2014-05-04T13:00:30Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > … > [The St. Paul library disposed of their copies of Photoplay previous to 1970 last month](http://blogs.twincities.com/cityhallscoop/2014/04/02/st-paul-library-system-ditches-photoplay-magazine-from-1930s-through-1960s-should-we-care/). I don’t know if this implies that they still have copies from the 1970s. > … The plot thickens. Exactly how close to the time this thread started did the library dispose of its collection? I smell a conspiracy. The thing is, some of you young’uns are saying yea or nay based strictly on looking at photos. But we old folks saw these people lots of times on TV and can tell you, for example, that it’s not Edward Mulhare, James Arness, John OR Patrick Wayne, Martin Landau, and a host of others who have been suggested. It’s time to get [del]cereal[/del] serious and contact the people in the photo who are still alive and ask them. Marlo Thomas has a new book out-- she was on the Diane Rehm Show last week. She should be fairly accessible. There must be Dopers who have connections to the others. Before it’s too late! ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/456 "2014-05-04T13:50:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So why _does_ this challenge grab us all so much? Obviously it does. But it seems like such a silly thing on its face (so to speak). I was curious about the resolution, but not enough to look any further than I already did. What I find striking is how dismissive people are. They don’t know who it is, they just know that you can’t possibly be right. Now it’s devolved to hoaxer guy. This thread has everything but the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/457 "2014-05-04T13:58:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > So why _does_ this challenge grab us all so much? Obviously it does. But it seems like such a silly thing on its face (so to speak). Because in this age of omnipotent Google-fu, it’s maddening that an answer doesn’t present itself within minutes. In fact the idea that there is probably once very well-known information (the identify of a Tonight Show guest, of all things) now irretrievably lost to time, seems borderline heresy. ---
**Author:** ![Patrick43](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Patrick43](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patrick43)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/458 "2014-05-04T18:15:46Z")
I’ve seen the years 1969 and 1970 thrown out as the possible years for this event. I’ve looked at the guest list for every single episode of the Tonight Show from 69 to 73 on IMBD. Danny Thomas, Carol Burnett and Glen Campbell make separate appearances during these years, but never together. Maybe the guest lists are incomplete. who knows. But I’m thinking this is possibly a clever hoax. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/459 "2014-05-04T19:46:01Z")
^^That by itself doesn’t mean much. IMDB, as well as other sites, are notoriously deficient in their listings of talk show guests from way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/460 "2014-05-04T20:03:27Z")
Patrick43: This thread has numerous posts referencing newspaper clippings that show that this lineup of guests was on the show Nov 11, 1970. We should move past this debate about when the show aired. We know. And we know these were the winners of the Photoplay awards that night. Unfortunately, the mystery man is not listed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=24)