# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/541 "2014-05-06T17:55:38Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > If we actually do hear back from Carol Burnett or Marlo Thomas (I have my doubts) it’ll probably turn out not to be a celebrity. It’ll be either a rep of John Wayne, or a writer or other behind-the-scenes person from the show. Or the editor-in-chief of _Photoplay_. If we hear back from either Carol or Marlo I’m guessing they won’t remember, it was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/542 "2014-05-06T17:58:30Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > [November, 1970](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Tonight_Show_Starring_Johnny_Carson_episodes_%281970%29#November). > > Burt Bacharach guest-hosted on the 10th. Joe Namath guest-hosted on the 9th, although, from what I have learned over the last two days, there was always a guest-host on Monday. On Thursday, the 12th, it looks like a typical show. IMDb says the Carpenters were guests on the 13th, information missing from the Wiki page. IMDb & Wiki check on the info about the guests on the 10th, but IMDb neglects to mention Bacharach as the guest host. [Here’s the relevant IMDb page](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055708/episodes?year=1970). Take everything you see on Wikipedia and IMDb about those shows with a huge lump of salt. First of all, the Wikipedia claims are totally unsourced and I don’t know where IMdb claims to get its information. For November 13, 1970, IMDb lists the Carpenters as the only guests. Wikipedia lists Carol Wayne and Gig Young as the only guests. We have proof that the guests that night included AT LEAST [Musician Eydie Gorme, actress Carol Wayne, actor Peter Lawford, actor Mickey Rooney, actress Rose Marie](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/aired-11-13-70-pictured-musician-eydie-gorme-actress-carol-news-photo/138445808), and [The Carpenters](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/aired-11-13-70-pictured-musical-guests-the-carpenters-news-photo/138452492). (There could have been more.) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/543 "2014-05-06T18:18:07Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Take everything you see on Wikipedia and IMDb about those shows with a huge lump of salt. Oh, I do. That’s why I looked every place I could. I looked at [tv.com](http://tv.com) as well, and a lot of other sites. I would never source Wiki for anything important, but how many resources are there for a question like this? I didn’t go to Wiki, anyway, I just entered a lot of search terms in Google, and Wiki would come up. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/544 "2014-05-06T18:34:05Z")
Some of the Photoplay issues (for around the right time period) I saw for sale had pictures of the inside covers which listed the names of editors for the magazine. On the chance MM might be one of them I tried to find photos of them but had no luck. I also tried searching “male actors of the 70’s” and found lots of pics but none that were very close to a match. There was a Steve McQueen pic that was kinda close. So far, the best luck I’ve had seaching for old issues is to use the title “Photoplay with TV Mirror Magazine…” I’m running out of ideas, if anyone has something new, do tell. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/545 "2014-05-06T19:06:23Z")
I searched Emmy winners and nominees, and no luck. There was a Burt Bacharach special (gawd help the 70s) that won one, but people have nixed it being Burt Bacharach. So far, he looks the closest, although I’ll admit he’s not a perfect match, just similar looking. ETA: I came upon the Primetime Emmys by searching for all the names of the known people together, and looked to see if they appeared in a cluster some place with other names, and the Primetime Emmys for 1970 was the first hit (after this thread). ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/546 "2014-05-06T19:56:33Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Oh, I do. That’s why I looked every place I could. I looked at [tv.com](http://tv.com) as well, and a lot of other sites. I would never source Wiki for anything important, but how many resources are there for a question like this? I didn’t go to Wiki, anyway, I just entered a lot of search terms in Google, and Wiki would come up. Don’t put Wikipedia down so fast. Which is more likely? Someone deliberately putting in incorrect information or someone knowing the actual facts correcting the incorrect info? How many times have you seen in a book supposedly containing facts a typo or other misinformation? You can’t correct a book (you can correct your own copy, but that’s it). How many people use that book in their research and spread the misinformation around in other books of facts? However, anyone with actual knowledge of facts can correct the info immediately on Wikipedia no matter how many times someone deliberately or unintentionally distributes false information. ---
**Author:** ![Wiseguy70005](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wiseguy70005](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiseguy70005)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/547 "2014-05-06T20:03:04Z")
Quote: Originally Posted by Koxinga Going only by the pictures I would have sworn that was Martin Landau. Having been a fan of both Mission: Impossible (before the pic) and Space: 1999 (after the pic) I can say with 99.9982 % assurance it is NOT Martin Landau. Sorry, it was unclear to what you were referring to. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/548 "2014-05-06T20:10:45Z")
Dumb question, but has anybody run the photo through Google Image Search or TinEye? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/549 "2014-05-06T20:12:28Z")
Just a wild thought here: Has anyone bothered to find out who the publisher of _ **Photoplay** _ was in 1970? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/550 "2014-05-06T20:36:27Z")
[Chet Atkins](http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag223/pablo628/ChetAtkins_zpscd27f87b.jpg) This is a reversed image so the hair part is actually on his left side. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/551 "2014-05-06T20:39:43Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Dumb question, but has anybody run the photo through Google Image Search or TinEye? Running the face alone, not helpful at all. Running the whole photo found that the oldest posting that I could get a link to identifies MM as Ted Bessell, but it was posted two years ago at a TV fan site, and I don’t know if the poster had good information, or was just guessing. Everyone here thinks it isn’t Bessell. Other links reveal that people have been trying to figure out who MM is for the last six months, with no success. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/552 "2014-05-06T20:40:44Z")
I would bet good money on it being Richman… but Sid Caesar? How in the heck could anyone think he could be him? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/553 "2014-05-06T20:49:47Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > I would bet good money on it being Richman… That would be a bad bet considering he’s already told us himself that it’s not him. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/554 "2014-05-06T20:59:16Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > That would be a bad bet considering he’s already told us himself that it’s not him. DAMN… well then my vote goes to a selfie of Naadir Tharpe minus the high school nurse. Seriously though that guess is as good as Sid Caesar, David Soul or Dick Cavett! It’s Ted Bundy before it is any of those guys. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/555 "2014-05-06T21:00:39Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > I would bet good money on it being Richman… but Sid Caesar? How in the heck could anyone think he could be him? When I first glanced at the photo, I hadn’t read the OP carefully and I was looking at the guy in the light-colored suit. My first thought, “So who’s that sitting next to Sid Caesar?” I just wanted to throw that out there in case it turns out to be right. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/556 "2014-05-06T21:04:31Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > I found [numerous](http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2011/Gloversville%20NY%20Leader%20Herald/Gloversville%20NY%20Leader%20Herald%201977%20Grayscale/Gloversville%20NY%20Leader%20Herald%201977%20Grayscale%20-%203529.pdf) [references](http://books.google.com/books?id=5hDG6auRCJ4C&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=Angie+Dickinson+photoplay&source=bl&ots=dvPxTZdnXM&sig=plWcCCSjp_4hPET0RvZjZJmNm70&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AT9oU_DRBIzfoAS8kIH4DA&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q=Angie%20Dickinson%20photoplay&f=false) to **Angie Dickenson hosting the 1977 Photoplay awards** , including[this slightly more detailed article](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19770612&id=IcJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2_oDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4230,3264253) that lists some winners between 1969 and 1978, which all other sources seem to lack. But I couldn’t find any references to her having any connection to the 1970 awards. > **Given the number of references to the 1977 awards, all I can say is that they must have had lousy promotopms for the 1970 awards**. Note that references to “1970 Photoplay Awards” (and variants) _don’t imply any ceremony having taken place_. It is possible that whatever entity owned the “Photoplay” name at that point did declare that particular movies, television shows, or actors had “won” for 1970. But _it does not follow_ that a ceremony of any kind took place. Evidence for a ceremony seems quite sparse, so far. Most references to 1970 “awards” mention only “awards” and not a time or place in which such awards were publicly handed out. > [@Mithras](#): > > Yeah, but what we’re interested in are the 1969 awards (which were voted on and awarded in 1970). As established a couple pages back, the March 1970 issue had the voting and the June 1970 issue had the results for the 1969 awards. I don’t know why the winners were announced so far in advance of the show, but that’s apparently how it was done. If these times/dates are to be relied upon–a June 1970 revelation of the 1969-award-winners–then why would people have been dressed up and appearing on the Tonight show in _November_? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/557 "2014-05-06T21:14:44Z")
Are these possibly nominees for 1971? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/558 "2014-05-06T21:33:55Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Are these possibly nominees for 1971? Anything’s possible; but to me the psychology doesn’t fit. When have we seen _nominees_ dress up in formal attire and go as a group to appear on national television?..wouldn’t that look sort of…desperate? Particularly since these are pretty far from being the most prestigious awards in show business… Surely they’d be exposing themselves to ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/559 "2014-05-06T21:36:43Z")
I bet their agents were thinking of it more as exposing themselves for Exposure. That’s when the common celebrity really got started. It’s not like, Marlene Dietrich, Katherine Hepburn, Marlo Thomas. They were all punching it out for next TV role. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/560 "2014-05-06T21:44:12Z")
It’s Grace Zabriskie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=29)