# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/681 "2014-05-09T05:33:57Z")
Check out Newley’s smile in [these](http://www.lvol.com/gossip/photos/041307g.jpg) [photos](http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0002/861/MI0002861899.jpg?partner=allrovi.com), and his expression in the reflected image of this [photo](http://users.bestweb.net/~foosie/peakperf.jpg) and I think there’s quite a bit of similarity between him and our mystery man. I’m beginning to think that thanks to **cococ173** and his friend (and Carol Burnett, to whom hundreds of us around teh interwebs may owe a great many thanks if it was indeed her who provided the correct answer) we may finally have the mystery solved. I certainly hope so. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/682 "2014-05-09T05:37:05Z")
I could buy Anthony Newley. Closest match yet, anyway. And if it came from Carol Burnett, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/683 "2014-05-09T05:57:41Z")
_Stop This Thread - I Want to Get Off_ There’s no way in hell that’s Anthony Newley. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/684 "2014-05-09T07:46:33Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > I was not the person who brought this guessing game to this board. I was the person who came on the board, registered, and explained where I first saw the pic on facebook. Then I went the extra mile reaching out until I found someone who may know the answer to the mystery. No, I know that, I mean you started it by posting the picture for **Stoid**. Anyway, I didn’t communicate my dry tone very well–I was snarking on the “OMG THIS IS A HOAX!!!” posts. I certainly don’t expect you to post a personal email in public, and definitely not your friend’s (or Ms. Burnett’s) email address. > [@](#): > > You have no choice but to trust me. Well, in fairness, no. The other choice is: _not_ to trust you. I mean c’mon, switch places for a moment: why should we believe your friend emailed Carol Burnett personally and got a response so quickly, apparently a one-word reply? Are they BFFs or something? Is Carol Burnett that responsive to general fans? (It’s the one word reply that’s so disappointing! Geeze, I was hoping for at least a “Oh yes, that was the Photoplay/Emmys/HoaxMasters Roast '71, and Newley was the one cracking us up by singing “What Kind of Fool Am I?” in Cockney rhyming slang!” :D) I’d love it to be Newley just to get a bleedin’ answer already! The only problem with Tony Newley is that IRL his hair during this time period (early '70s) was almost impossibly dark brown/black …and extremely thick and untamed, even in formal dress. Plus, he had sideburns. [Here he is in a photo dated 1970](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/photo-of-anthony-newley-anthony-newley-performing-on-stage-news-photo/84902715). [Another photo, dated circa 1970](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/photo-of-anthony-newley-photo-by-michael-ochs-archives-news-photo/74288890). [Circa 1975](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/british-actor-and-singer-anthony-newley-in-concert-circa-news-photo/73668380). [And, amusingly, on the _Tonight Show_ in 1976](http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/pictured-actor-singer-anthony-newley-host-johnny-carson-on-news-photo/140756015). It could very well be Newley having gone “the wet look” instead of blow-dried, although it doesn’t quite fit his style at the time. I did find a version of him with “smaller” hair, from 1965 – _and_ left-profile, can you believe it? (I’m beginning to think actors/actresses have a universal hatred of their left profiles.) But you want to know what rules him out to me? [His ears.](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/14/article-0-00664AFF00000258-573_634x513.jpg) If I learned anything from a fascinating documentary based on proving whether or not Anna Anderson was Grand Duchess Anastasia, it’s that ears are practically fingerprints. Newley’s ear has a rounded top and fairly thin edges. MM’s is slightly pointed and more delineated edges, and also seems higher on his head than Newley’s (although that could just be the different angle). So I won’t say I’m 100% a refusnik on this issue, I’m just not certain. I will say that Newley would have been a proportionate star for that group in 1970–he makes a good substitute who fits in with the B-class stars present, and he was featured in _Photoplay_. Although it’s a bit hard to imagine what he’d have won for that year–_Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory_, for which he co-wrote the terrific score, wouldn’t be released until 1971. Remember the _Photoplay_ awards were basically a popularity contest. I do see he made a couple of albums in 1969, so maybe there was a “Favorite Male Vocalist” category that year? It’d be awesome to have this puzzle laid to rest. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/685 "2014-05-09T08:06:34Z")
Compare the ears. They are totally different. Newley has unattached earlobes. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/686 "2014-05-09T08:13:05Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > Stop! Don’t order anything. I am just waiting for a confirmation of Carol’s response. Hey, co! I didn’t even realize you were here! Welcome! So since you live across the street, show ME the email!😃 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/687 "2014-05-09T08:52:36Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’ve seen Anthony Newley a zillion times. I’m old. I’ve seen ALL of the people suggested. I was a huge fan of Newley. He did _Stop the World I Want to Get Off! and The Roar of the Greasepaint the Smell of the Crowd. The latter show contained the song “Feeling Good” that has recently made a comeback (“Birds flyin’ high, you know how I feel, sun in the sky, you know how I feel…” etc._) > > The pic sort of resembles him. But I don’t think it’s him. The hair is wrong; Newley had very dark hair. The chin is wrong. > > [Here’s a bunch of him](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1267&bih=860&tbm=isch&oq=+%22anthony+newley%22&gs_l=img.3..0l6j0i24l4.66779.76056.0.79813.18.18.0.0.0.0.258.2051.4j13j1.18.0....0...1c.1.43.img..5.13.1261.qhkuQfM1z8Y&q=%22anthony%20newley%22) > > [Here’s Newley- far right](http://www.masterworksbroadway.com/sites/broadwaymw/files/photos/NEWLEY_Anthony_phG.jpg) > > [Better pic of him](http://www.masterworksbroadway.com/sites/broadwaymw/files/imagecache/preview/photos/NEWLEY_Anthony_phC.jpg) > > [Newley, far left](http://www.masterworksbroadway.com/sites/broadwaymw/files/imagecache/preview/photos/ROARGREASEPAINT_cast_phG.jpg) I agree, not Newley. (He was quite a short guy). I’m old too and some of the suggestions in this thread have clearly been made by people too young to have been familiar with the celebrities they’re putting forward. I’ve been flabbergasted by some of them! I don’t know who it is but if we ever find out it will be thanks to people like **choie**. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/688 "2014-05-09T09:28:16Z")
^ OMG what a nice thing to say, **aldiboronti**! Wow. 🙂 Perusing the Getty Images (definitely a great resource, guys!) I found a shot of Newley that’s almost precisely the same angle (although certainly not the same expression) as our MM. [Here’s a comparison shot.](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/general%20stuff/newley_MM_zps96afd1af.jpg) The photo is undated, but it’s definitely late '60s / early '70s (probably closer to the former than latter). Either way, note the hairline–which is true of every image of Newley post-1967 or so. I think he might have gotten plugs, because there’s a noticeable difference when comparing the 1950s/mid-'60s era of his marriage to Joan Collins (which, wow, I never knew about)–[for example, here’s a pic from 1966](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm189110272/nm0627969?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_5)–to his _Doctor Doolittle_ era, where his hairline drops a good inch or so, practically simian (e.g. [this pic from 1967, the _Doolittle_ premiere](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm323328000/nm0627969?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_evt_13). As an aside, I remember my father starting to get plugs in the mid-1970s. It… didn’t last. He embraced the “high forehead” look with a little help from a comb-over. As I recall him saying at the time, the hairplug process was pretty painful. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/689 "2014-05-09T09:42:46Z")
OT, but thank gawd my husband has embraced the receding hairline. He has always had a high widow’s peak, so it’s not so obvious (think Chris Meloni as Elliot Stabler). DH also likes military haircuts after serving 8 years in the reserves (1 year in Iraq). There are several bald men on my mother’s side of the family; the younger ones have gone for the Shel Silverstein look, and the older ones for neat trims, and nice hats. I hope my son isn’t one of the early onset Socratic rings, but if he is, I’ll get him started on his hat collection. Comb-overs are awful. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/690 "2014-05-09T12:03:02Z")
A long shot, but I wonder if the MM would be one of the awards show seat-fillers. Perhaps they were all being prepped for a group photo, and while the photographer was getting ready and setting up the shot, someone told one of the seat-fillers to sit in for a second until John Wayne or Johnny Carson or whoever came back from the men’s room or a cigarette break. I’d be surprised if it was an intentional hoax. I think most hoaxsters want their “art” to been seen and discussed. And this seems a bit obscure for that. (I know we are all talking about it, but I don’t think we would be the presumed hoaxster’s audience.) This would explain two things for me. First, that’s a front row seat. I’m not saying that James Brolin and Karen Valentine are A list celebrities now. But at the time they were big TV stars. Certainly they would rate a front row seat before someone we don’t know today. And if Johnny Carson was in the seat, just to the right of the photo, our MM wouldn’t have been some obscure guy that 21,000 of us have looked at and can’t place (probably 21,000 views not individual but work with me here!) That would have arguably been the seat of honor. And as likely, Carol Burnett or Danny Thomas would be in that seat. And if the MM was John Wayne or some other huge A list guy, that would explain that as well. I’m not going to go all mind reader as some have done here, but it does appear that some in the pic are looking to the right and laughing. Perhaps they are looking at the seat-filler and saying “Congratulations of your big film hahaha” joking with the guy and his 15 minutes of fame. Hard to imagine that we can’t figure this guy out, so I’m looking for another likely explanation. I’d guess that Peter Mark Richman (and family probably) know if he was at that awards show with all of those stars. No way I believe bhe just can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/691 "2014-05-09T15:13:41Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > A long shot, but I wonder if the MM would be one of the awards show seat-fillers. Perhaps they were all being prepped for a group photo, and while the photographer was getting ready and setting up the shot, someone told one of the seat-fillers to sit in for a second until John Wayne or Johnny Carson or whoever came back from the men’s room or a cigarette break. > … My resolution to stay away lasted about 4 hours. I’m pathetic. But I LOVE this solution! So MM is just some Joe Schmuck put there as a fill-in while they lined up the shots. Given that he’s in a tux, he’s probably someone’s date or husband, not a techie person. After all, it doesn’t make sense, if this were a live pic from the JC Show, for JC not to be in the picture. Unfortunately, the only way to verify this is to see a picture (time/date-stamped, of course) of Johnny Carson and/or John Wayne either smoking a ciggie or taking a leak _at the time this picture was taken_. That could be tough… but I know this group is up to that challenge! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/692 "2014-05-09T15:19:43Z")
It could be some nobody. There’s also no reason that this had to be taken during a show. It could have been shot before or after, and Johnny may not have been around. I still think it’s possible that it’s Patrick Wayne. If you search on his name it will turn up tons of John Wayne links, so having him misidentified in TV listings is not surprising. The only problem with that theory is that it only faintly resembles Patrick Wayne. That is of course the problem with all the other guesses, including Newley. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/693 "2014-05-09T15:59:17Z")
Award show seat fillers are used for televised shows so that people at home don’t see an empty seat when the crowd is shown because, lord knows, that would be a terrible terrible thing, but I digress. Unless the Photoplay awards were televised from the Tonight Show studio, (were they televised at all?) this explanation makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/694 "2014-05-09T16:12:28Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > Unless the Photoplay awards were televised from the Tonight Show studio, (were they televised at all?) this explanation makes no sense. I thought that year they were televised on the Glenn Campbell variety show, which is why he is included in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/695 "2014-05-09T16:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Sherrerd > Why? Because it’s something that people do on the Internet. Some people post faked content to get attention/stir up emotion/make a name for themselves. Do you really want to claim that this doesn’t occur? Seriously? > [@choie](#): > > Please calm the heck down. Do you realize that you just forfeited any credibility you might have had, by using this old chestnut of an ad hominem attack? Nevertheless, since I’ll be AFK for a couple of days, I’ll address a couple of additional whoppers: > [@choie](#): > > …And then uploading it and causing an “uproar” on some extremely minor sites, all with a goal “to make a name for himself,” you say? No, as a matter of fact I _didn’t_ say that. “Making a name” wasn’t the motivation I claimed for all fakery on the Internet; it was one of several. Read my post and you will discover your mistake. > [@choie](#): > > … First a dozen newspapers dating back to 11/1970 are found with that _exact_ grouping (minus Wayne and Davis and MM). But no, that’s not good enough, these _pay-walled_ archives can somehow be faked. You don’t seem to understand what “pay-wall” means. All readers of this thread can see those pages, simply by clicking the links offered; if the pages were behind a pay-wall, we would have to input our paid-registration information in order to see them. > [@choie](#): > > Who’s this “we,” kemosabe? Noooo, we don’t have that “admission.” Where is that from? They probably went to a party or dinner afterwards. It’s Hollywood, you think they’re gonna miss a chance at an event? Think of it like the People’s Choice Awards. You’ve missed the point. The issue was _not_ Did These People Go To A Party. The issue was Did Photoplay Host A Ceremony To Give Out its Awards (the way AMPAS puts on the Oscars). > [@choie](#): > > Tell me how someone fakes a newspaper, no, dozens of newspapers, behind paywalls. How they fake Google News archives. How they fake the _New York Times_. See above for the meaning of “paywall.” In re the New York Times: how many of us have seen that, again? It would be interesting to know. > [@spifflog](#): > > …I’d be surprised if it was an intentional hoax. I think most hoaxsters want their “art” to been seen and discussed. And this seems a bit obscure for that. (I know we are all talking about it, but I don’t think we would be the presumed hoaxster’s audience.)… Having–what, 20K page views?–is quite satisfying for some who post mischief to the Internet. It’s about sitting back and watching people put time and effort into dealing with whatever you’ve posted. So, yeah: we certainly are part of any presumed hoaxter’s audience–a very valued part. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/696 "2014-05-09T16:28:47Z")
So this is what it’s like for women when they don’t quite get there… ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/697 "2014-05-09T16:38:24Z")
Did anyone guess Joe Hamilton, Carol Burnett’s husband at that time. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/698 "2014-05-09T16:48:49Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Did anyone guess Joe Hamilton, Carol Burnett’s husband at that time. Did that already. I think he’s looking at Carol so I looked for pictures. Not too many available. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/699 "2014-05-09T17:22:24Z")
Pretty sure it’s not [Joe Hamilton](http://static2.imagecollect.com/preview/560/c6b6a25ce660cdf). ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/700 "2014-05-09T17:35:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Having–what, 20K page views?–is quite satisfying for some who post mischief to the Internet. It’s about sitting back and watching people put time and effort into dealing with whatever you’ve posted. So, yeah: we certainly are part of any presumed hoaxter’s audience–a very valued part. The glaring problem is that there is no way that anyone would have anticipated this response. It’s insane. It’s a picture of a bunch of 70’s celebs on Johnny Carson. Yawn. Gee, who’s this guy? I dunno. Shrug. Next. That it didn’t go like that is amazing, and certainly in no way predictable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=36)