# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/701 "2014-05-09T18:05:17Z")
Widener Library at Harvard has _Photoplay_ on microfilm. I have requested the reels from 1970 -71. The bad news is they have to be shipped in from storage, so I won’t be able to look at them until they arrive - Monday at the earliest. If that picture (and any caption or other text) is in there, I’ll find it. Or if anyone wants to beat me to the punch, you could check your local big-city or college libraries. Veritas! ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/702 "2014-05-09T18:11:29Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Widener Library at Harvard has _Photoplay_ on microfilm. I have requested the reels from 1970 -71. > > The bad news is they have to be shipped in from storage, so I won’t be able to look at them until they arrive - Monday at the earliest. If that picture (and any caption or other text) is in there, I’ll find it. > > Or if anyone wants to beat me to the punch, you could check your local big-city or college libraries. > > Veritas! This looks promising. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/703 "2014-05-09T18:11:38Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Having–what, 20K page views?–is quite satisfying for some who post mischief to the Internet. It’s about sitting back and watching people put time and effort into dealing with whatever you’ve posted. So, yeah: we certainly are part of any presumed hoaxter’s audience–a very valued part. umkay, maybe we are being hoaxed. (not really, maybe we are, but this could be some random photo with no real hoax involved) ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/704 "2014-05-09T18:37:50Z")
I suggested Joe Hamilton based on [this](http://imagecollect.com/picture/carol-burnett-joe-hamilton-photo-3181565/archival-pictures-globe-photos-78960) picture. Notice the smile lines around the mouth and the hair part and the left ear look pretty close to MM. But the nose looks a little off, so I’m not really sure. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/705 "2014-05-09T18:38:26Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Perusing the Getty Images (definitely a great resource, guys!) I found a shot of Newley that’s almost precisely the same angle (although certainly not the same expression) as our MM. [Here’s a comparison shot.](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/general%20stuff/newley_MM_zps96afd1af.jpg) > > The photo is undated, but it’s definitely late '60s / early '70s (probably closer to the former than latter). Either way, note the hairline–which is true of every image of Newley post-1967 or so. I think he might have gotten plugs, because there’s a noticeable difference when comparing the 1950s/mid-'60s era of his marriage to Joan Collins (which, wow, I never knew about)–[for example, here’s a pic from 1966](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm189110272/nm0627969?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_5)–to his _Doctor Doolittle_ era, where his hairline drops a good inch or so, practically simian (e.g. [this pic from 1967, the _Doolittle_ premiere](http://www.imdb.com/media/rm323328000/nm0627969?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_evt_13). > > As an aside, I remember my father starting to get plugs in the mid-1970s. It… didn’t last. He embraced the “high forehead” look with a little help from a comb-over. As I recall him saying at the time, the hairplug process was pretty painful. Shit, I was all set to get on board the Newley train but that nose is wrong. The Newley photo on the left, he has a pretty straight nose - but the MM has a more sloped/downward slanted nose. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/706 "2014-05-09T18:40:55Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > In re the New York Times: how many of us have seen that, again? It would be interesting to know. I’ve seen it, and anyone else with access to ProQuest Historical Newspapers can see it too. If you think that I am lying about this then I would appreciate it if you would at least do me the courtesy of saying so directly. ---
**Author:** ![cococ173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@cococ173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cococ173)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/707 "2014-05-09T18:51:30Z")
If Carol Burnett said the man is Anthony Newley, even if she is mistaken, don’t you think it verifies that this group of people were together at some place in time for this photo. And more importantly, don’t you think she would recognize her own husband- Joe Hamilton? I look forward to Vashbul’s discovery. By the way, Carol was asked by someone who works with her, in person I think, and not a random email by a fan. And, Stoid, yes you may see the email since we are friends. I am surprised by the mistrust on this board. Maybe I am naive. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/708 "2014-05-09T19:04:20Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > I am surprised by the mistrust on this board. Maybe I am naive. Don’t take it personal. Look at the very _name_ of this board. Most people here take it quite seriously and for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/709 "2014-05-09T19:07:44Z")
I live near the University of Illinois, a librarian is doing a search for me. Never know, it might lead somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/710 "2014-05-09T19:10:56Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Widener Library at Harvard has _Photoplay_ on microfilm. I have requested the reels from 1970 -71. > > The bad news is they have to be shipped in from storage, so I won’t be able to look at them until they arrive - Monday at the earliest. If that picture (and any caption or other text) is in there, I’ll find it. > > Or if anyone wants to beat me to the punch, you could check your local big-city or college libraries. > > Veritas! > [@randompattern](#): > > I live near the University of Illinois, a librarian is doing a search for me. > Never know, it might lead somewhere. A big thank-you to our library patrons! ---
**Author:** ![cococ173](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@cococ173](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cococ173)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/711 "2014-05-09T19:13:59Z")
Thanks, Lieu. I just hate for people to do extra work confirming it isn’t a hoax when I know it isn’t. It’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/712 "2014-05-09T19:45:42Z")
> [@cococ173](#): > > And more importantly, don’t you think she would recognize her own husband- Joe Hamilton? They were divorced in 1984. Maybe she doesn’t want him to get the credit 😃 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/713 "2014-05-09T20:00:01Z")
For the life of me I don’t know why I’m engaging this person. Stubbornness, I guess. I’m a Leo, it’s my nature. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > Do you realize that you just forfeited any credibility you might have had, by using this old chestnut of an ad hominem attack? Look up _ad hominem_. Telling someone who’s using boldface, underline and italics to highlight (invalid) points to chill out is not _ad hominem_. Telling someone she has lost “all credibility” just because I suggested you dial down the **Bosda** -esque (and actually, **Stoid** -esque!) text decorations is closer to an _ad hominem_ attack–but by a micrometer. Insulting **Lamia** by implying she’s lying, however… yeah, that’s _ad hom._ Insulting a poster who spent ten years as a professional researcher and is currently a web developer by implying that I don’t know what a paywall is? That’s close to _ad hom._ too. Does anyone else think I’ve lost all my credibility here? 'Cause if so, I’ll bow out. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, since I’ll be AFK for a couple of days, I’ll address a couple of additional whoppers: Ahhhh, now calling me a liar. No, _that’s_ not an insult at all! I’m not even gonna bother with your constantly moving the goalposts of what a motive for such a ridiculously banal hoax would be. First it was making a name but no! now it isn’t. Causing a ruckus was another option, but no! now it isn’t. The mind boggles. > [@](#): > > You don’t seem to understand what “pay-wall” means. All readers of this thread can see those pages, simply by clicking the links offered; if the pages were behind a pay-wall, we would have to input our paid-registration information in order to see them. Yes, no kidding. But the images and OCR from [newspapers.com](http://newspapers.com) and [newspaperarchives.com](http://newspaperarchives.com) are taken from documents _behind a paywall_. Are you suggesting that our hoaxer works for [newspapers.com](http://newspapers.com) and [newspaperarchives.com](http://newspaperarchives.com) and/or has managed to hack their websites? As well as the stuff behind the paywall from which the sites are pulling the content? Really? Or to put it your way: _ **REALLY?!** _ > [@](#): > > You’ve missed the point. The issue was _not_ Did These People Go To A Party. The issue was Did Photoplay Host A Ceremony To Give Out its Awards (the way AMPAS puts on the Oscars). Goalposts, goalposts, who has the goalposts? Which way did they go, George, which way did they go? I submitted several links to videos of gala dinners to answer your second question, which I guess proves I have clairvoyance because that certainly ain’t what you asked the first time. Frankly, here’s a better question: what the heck does your new question have to do with whether these actors/performers/award-winners were dressed up on the _Tonight Show_? Because whether or not the awards were announced on TV after or before a private Hollywood party, or were given out at a separate dinner, the stars would’ve been dressed up. _That_ is the point. > [@](#): > > See above for the meaning of “paywall.” In re the New York Times: how many of us have seen that, again? It would be interesting to know. **Lamia** already addressed this not-very-veilled accusation toward her. So now **Lamia** is part of this alleged hoax? For shame, **Lamia**! Do you realize that your perfidy has caused trauma to… why, we must be talking _dozens_ of hapless victims! 😃 > [@](#): > > Having–what, 20K page views?–is quite satisfying for some who post mischief to the Internet. It’s about sitting back and watching people put time and effort into dealing with whatever you’ve posted. So, yeah: we certainly are part of any presumed hoaxter’s audience–a very valued part. Okay, so this person found a photo of some random 1970s stars on a random _Tonight Show_ episode where that first seat happened to be empty, decided to _perfectly_ Photoshop this mystery dude into the image (despite no one being able to prove any hints of actual image manipulation)? _Plus_ the question exists: where does this guy’s image come from? The hoaxer had to find an appropriate-era guy, in a tux, looking at his fellow guests, sitting precisely in the right position to fit in that first chair, hacked into the [newspaper.com](http://newspaper.com) and [newspaperarchives.com](http://newspaperarchives.com) to alter at least a dozen different newspapers, hacked into the _New York Times_ archives… and finally, let’s not forget, _invented a time machine so that s/he could go back to 2011 and post a thread on some Eastern Virginia radio forum that mentions the awards_… All for 20K pageviews. Dayum. Frankly, if someone seriously did all that? S/he deserves all the pageviews and attention we’ve given him/her. Because this is one helluva diligent hoaxer. **cococ173** , did you confirm that this was Ms. Burnett’s recollection, or your friend’s guess? That was up-in-the-air when you posted earlier, I think. Again, I don’t want to sound like my interlocutor up there, but I hope you understand that some skepticism _is_ in order when a new poster arrives out of the blue to announce that they know someone who knows Carol frikkin’ Burnett. You must realize that none of us (save **Stoid** ) know you, right? I don’t even know if **Stoid** knows your friend. Surely it’s not _that_ strange that some of us are hesitating a bit? (Especially since wow, that guy looks less like Newley every time I look at him. Anthony Newley in the late '60s through the early '80s had a fuckton of hair that he enjoyed fluffing up and showing off. This guy is as prim and proper as Felix Unger.) There’s skepticism that’s over-the-top (c.f. **Sherred** ) and there’s normal, everyday doubt. I think we’re exhibiting the latter. But honestly, if your friend does indeed work for Carol Burnett, that is extremely cool and I hope she’s as awesome a person in real life as she appears to be. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/714 "2014-05-09T20:03:32Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > I live near the University of Illinois, a librarian is doing a search for me. > Never know, it might lead somewhere. **IF** the library has them(possibly actual magazines too!) it could take up to 4 weeks for them to get sent here.:eek: I said sure go ahead, I hope we know before then. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/715 "2014-05-09T20:28:05Z")
Choie: co and I live in Hollywood, so having a friend who knows Burnett isn’t much of a thing, the way it might be in most of the country. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/716 "2014-05-09T21:31:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The glaring problem is that there is no way that anyone would have anticipated this response. It’s insane. It’s a picture of a bunch of 70’s celebs on Johnny Carson. Yawn. Gee, who’s this guy? I dunno. Shrug. Next. That it didn’t go like that is amazing, and certainly in no way predictable. The only “hoax” scenario that makes any sense is if someone decided to 'shop himself into a photo of celebs for the heck of it, and then posted it for his friends, properly labeled as the photoshop work that it was, but then somehow it got away from him, because maybe someone did a search on one of the people in the photo. That would explain why he’s in the chair, and everyone else is on the couch or behind it, and why the photo is blurry. I don’t actually believe this, I’m just saying that as a hoax scenario, it’s the only thing that really makes sense-- the photo was created for a personal reason, and not actually to fool anyone, or start a Facebook page, and threads on several different websites. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/717 "2014-05-09T21:36:06Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The only “hoax” scenario that makes any sense is if someone decided to 'shop himself into a photo of celebs for the heck of it, and then posted it for his friends, properly labeled as the photoshop work that it was, but then somehow it got away from him, because maybe someone did a search on one of the people in the photo. Exactly. It’s not that big of a deal. If anyone put a lot of effort into finding the answer and wasn’t having fun doing it then… well, I don’t know, why did you do it? ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/718 "2014-05-09T22:06:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I still think it’s possible that it’s Patrick Wayne. If you search on his name it will turn up tons of John Wayne links, so having him misidentified in TV listings is not surprising. The only problem with that theory is that it only faintly resembles Patrick Wayne. That is of course the problem with all the other guesses, including Newley. But Patrick Wayne was also in the cast of _Big Jake_, so he presumably would have been down in Mexico with his father during the October to December 1970 (per Wiki) shooting of that film. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/719 "2014-05-09T22:14:50Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Okay, so this person found a photo of some random 1970s stars on a random _Tonight Show_ episode where that first seat happened to be empty, decided to _perfectly_ Photoshop this mystery dude into the image (despite no one being able to prove any hints of actual image manipulation)? _Plus_ the question exists: where does this guy’s image come from? The hoaxer had to find an appropriate-era guy, in a tux, looking at his fellow guests, sitting precisely in the right position to fit in that first chair Just playing devil’s advocate here: the empty chair thing isn’t a good objection. There could have been another celebrity there–hell, it could have been Johnny himself coming out front for a group photo–and the hypothetical prankster simply 'shopped a photo of his Uncle George’s face over the original, just for shits ‘n’ giggles. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/720 "2014-05-09T22:22:45Z")
That does _not_ look like Anthony Newley. It actually looks like Francois Truffaut [https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1296&bih=660&q=Francois+Truffaut&oq=Francois+Truffaut&gs\_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l5.1197.1197.0.1710.1.1.0.0.0.0.87.87.1.1.0....0...1ac.1.43.img..0.1.86.PEiBS78af24](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1296&bih=660&q=Francois+Truffaut&oq=Francois+Truffaut&gs_l=img.3..0l5j0i24l5.1197.1197.0.1710.1.1.0.0.0.0.87.87.1.1.0....0...1ac.1.43.img..0.1.86.PEiBS78af24) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=37)