# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/761 "2014-05-10T20:23:03Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > They wouldn’t announce the '70 nominees in November. They’d wait until after Dec. 31. Last year’s nominations were announced on December 12. November 11 is probably too early, but there’s no reason to think they waited until the end of the year. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/762 "2014-05-10T20:29:54Z")
Without question it’s Richman. So, Richman denies it’s him? This happens a lot. Something happened regarding events surrounding the photo, he’s upset, so now he denies it. Would hardly be the first time a star denies something that is well documented. E.g., what if he thought he was getting a Photoplay Award, sat with the other winners, and found out later he wasn’t getting one? Lying that it isn’t him means he can avoid having to explain what happened. He was never there! That’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/763 "2014-05-10T20:43:22Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Without question it’s Richman. > > So, Richman denies it’s him? This happens a lot. Something happened regarding events surrounding the photo, he’s upset, so now he denies it. Would hardly be the first time a star denies something that is well documented. If it was well documented this thread would have been much shorter. It really could be one of the people mentioned already. Our problem is proving it because of a low quality photo and the lack of documentation. Unlikely as it may be, any or all of those people could be celebrity impersonators, or it could be a hoax, it would be pretty difficult to detect tampering in that low quality image. Anyway, it’s still a question about Richman, and everyone else suggested so far. Unless someone finds a very similar left profile image or some documentation we’ll always be at a less than conclusive level of proof. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/764 "2014-05-10T21:22:19Z")
Well that’s my point, if events happened around this photo that upset MM then it would be fair to assume that records would not be kept of him being there. In the case of JP Belmondo, the award is GG that’s the Hollywood Foreign Press so it would make sense for at least one representative of another film industry to be there. However, it’s on record he was very upset over the lack of distribution of French films by Hollywood. He said that Hollywood was starving the French Film industry. Perhaps he just wasn’t comfortable with the optics of appearing on a US show particularly if it was about an award that is designed to promote a film that he knows Hollywood won’t promote. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/765 "2014-05-10T21:27:24Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Huh. Jean Paul Belmondo is the first person suggested in this thread that has the exact right hair. And side profile, and dimple and smile creases , even the idea of wearing boots he was one of those french carefree fashion icons.. If it’s not JP then it’s his doppleganger. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/766 "2014-05-10T21:30:47Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Well that’s my point, if events happened around this photo that upset MM then it would be fair to assume that records would not be kept of him being there. There’s no way Richman could arrange a cover-up of that event. He was a mid-level celebrity, his face was recognizable at that time, but he didn’t have much name recognition. He might deny it because he did something stupid by insulting one of the power players there and as a result ruining his career. But there’s no reason the records wouldn’t be kept because of that. In addition, the TV listings would be based on information provided at least 1 week beforehand, so anything that did not appear in the listings would be because the information was never provided beforehand, if the mystery man actually appeared on the show, which I doubt. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/767 "2014-05-10T21:31:21Z")
This thread kind of sums up the end of the internet. Person who wasn’t there says he wasn’t there, and people don’t buy it. Person who was there says it was X and people don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/768 "2014-05-10T21:41:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s no way Richman could arrange a cover-up of that event. He was a mid-level celebrity, his face was recognizable at that time, but he didn’t have much name recognition. He might deny it because he did something stupid by insulting one of the power players there and as a result ruining his career. But there’s no reason the records wouldn’t be kept because of that. In addition, the TV listings would be based on information provided at least 1 week beforehand, so anything that did not appear in the listings would be because the information was never provided beforehand, if the mystery man actually appeared on the show, which I doubt. I don’t think it’s Richman, and I don’t think the show would care if they left him on or off it wouldn’t have mattered at the time. But in the case of JP Belmondo, leaving him off is more political. Whether it came from him or the show, film distribution is all about the bottom line for a major industry. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/769 "2014-05-10T21:54:03Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > But in the case of JP Belmondo, leaving him off is more political. Whether it came from him or the show, film distribution is all about the bottom line for a major industry. What’s the political aspect? He was a huge star in France, and a heart throb here in the US just based on his photos, not that many people had actually seen him in anything. I think the problem like with so many others is he doesn’t look like the guy. There’s a very good chance if it actually is someone recognizable that he won’t look that much like this picture. Even if it is unaltered there is not much color discernment, at least as I receive it on my PC. If the first copy of the original was taken from a glossy magazine page it could have lost a lot of detail right there whether it was film or digital. And we don’t know how many times the image has been transformed since then. It is at least one more time as each of us sees it on our computers, and probably several more times as the image has been moved from the camera and then through several types of software. Again, it could be Belmondo, and just not a representative image of him. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/770 "2014-05-10T23:35:26Z")
But wait, JP Belmondo looks like MM a lot. Check the ear, the nose at that angle, the hair, the body type, when JP smiles in the video trailer you see the facial creases, the dimple, etc. Even wearing boots, no American or Brit would wear boots with a tuxedo, but a Frenchman especially a guy like Belmondo, very possible since he was noted for his casual fashion flair. If it turns out its not him then fine, but this is a very close resemblance to what we have in the picture. Moreover, If I wasn’t told it was James Brolin I would have difficult time guessing it was him from that angle. He looks more like Jeff Bridges than James Brolin, but that wouldn’t work with all the “research” that people insist is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/771 "2014-05-10T23:57:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > So… what, it was okay to have him _on the show_, one that was seen by millions considering the number of stars on that episode, but the powerful _Tonight Show_ and NBC were afraid to include his name in the TV listings because… what, they were afraid that the Critics Assoc. would picket them? 🙂 > > We KNOW all those people were on the November 11, 1970 show, thanks to multiple sources. Are you guys suggesting that the _exact same_ group of people showed up a few months later? Wouldn’t that be a little… weird and incredibly unlikely? Photoplay discontinued their awards in 1968 so how accurate is the article that says November 1970? these people were on for the Photoplay awards? That doesn’t make any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/772 "2014-05-11T00:10:05Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Hmmm. IMDb says Jean Paul Belmondo was never on The Tonight Show, and Wiki agrees. I wouldn’t be shocked if the sources were wrong, but for now, I’m voting No on him. I IMBD and Wiki’d Carol Burnett and she was never on The Tonight Show either. So there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/773 "2014-05-11T01:53:33Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Photoplay discontinued their awards in 1968 so how accurate is the article that says November 1970? these people were on for the Photoplay awards? That doesn’t make any sense. It would help if you actually read the entire thread. People have already posted references to the June, 1970 Photoplay cover that included the awards announcement. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/774 "2014-05-11T02:13:54Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I IMBD and Wiki’d Carol Burnett and she was never on The Tonight Show either. So there’s that. YouTube disagrees ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/775 "2014-05-11T08:00:10Z")
Sweet bejesus! Gone two more days upcountry, and you guys _still_ haven’t figured this out? I am sorely disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/776 "2014-05-11T08:46:12Z")
Wish there were a way to insert a poll at this point, compiling all the suggestions so far. My vote would be for Jean Paul Belmondo. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/777 "2014-05-11T08:53:41Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > It would help if you actually read the entire thread. People have already posted references to the June, 1970 Photoplay cover that included the awards announcement. Exactly. (Although I don’t remember seeing that cover! Dang, how’d I miss that?) And I’ve linked to news articles describing several subsequent _Photoplay_ awards, which actually seem to have ended in 1978. Shock, consternation, uproar: IMDB information, which like Wikipedia is edited/created by random people on the internet, is wrong! > [@](#): > > Photoplay discontinued their awards in 1968 so how accurate is the article that says November 1970? these people were on for the Photoplay awards? That doesn’t make any sense. Ah but it’s not one article. It’s a dozen. Including in the _New York Times_ and the even more important journal of record, _TV Guide_. Speaking purely personally, if I were forced to choose what’s more likely to be correct, I’d pick the multiple primary sources from the week of the show (even if the listings were only approximations of who was going to be able to appear on the episode–e.g., no-shows like John Wayne and Bette Davis were still included in promo blurbs) over the oft-amusingly inaccurate user-edited sites like IMDB and Wikipedia. Now, moving to the specific suggestion of Jean Paul Belmondo, I just find that hard to believe. I mean, what you’ve gotta remember–or, you would remember if you’d read the thread, heh 😃 --is that these awards were the equivalent of the People’s Choice Awards. They were popularity contests via poll questions to the magazine’s U.S. readers. Also, this is a magazine that may have once been pretty glam and prestigious, but by the mid-'60s until its demise, some _Photoplay_ headlines were as lurid as any in the _National Enquirer_. So, pretty much a tabloid. As much as I’d be tickled pink to think that a poll created by this somewhat trashy American magazine would have included a “Favorite Foreign Film Star and Rabble-Rousing Critic of Film Distributors (Male)” award category, I really don’t think that’s likely. And re: the boots… c’mon, it was the 1970s. All bets are off regarding what people wore. I mean look at the schmatta Robert Young is wearing–a shiny silver tuxedo jacket that looks more like a smoking jacket? (And Young is hardly some daring rebel European!) Meanwhile, Glen Campbell is wearing a _yellow_ shirt with a tux, which is a tad untraditional to put it mildly; plus, I dunno, it kinda looks as if he could be wearing boots too–not surprising for a country singer. Finally, sigh, it looks like I’m gonna have to do this for everyone, but… [Belmondo vs. Mystery Man](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/general%20stuff/belmondo_MM_zpsd3663d4e.jpg). Belmondo pic courtesy of _Borsalino_, a film that premiered in 1970. So, likely about a year apart (assuming the film shot in '69), but hardly enough to explain the difference in ear sizes/location on head, not to mention jawlines and hair texture (although I suppose Belmondo could’ve gotten a perm; if it was good enough for Mike Brady, damnit, it’s good enough for the Pierre-Augustin Hulin of film distribution policies!). My answer is: Nope. And the survey says…? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/778 "2014-05-11T09:34:55Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > YouTube disagrees Did you miss the point that were being tongue-in-cheek, and saying that IMDb/Wiki omissions didn’t mean anything? ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/779 "2014-05-11T09:46:53Z")
Based on your comparison photo, **choie** , I say nope too. I’m a stubborn bastard. I’m sticking with my 2-week-old guess of Joey Bishop. I’m riding this pony all the way to the glue factory! ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/780 "2014-05-11T09:57:25Z")
> [@choie](#): > > [Belmondo vs. Mystery Man](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/general%20stuff/belmondo_MM_zpsd3663d4e.jpg). Belmondo pic courtesy of _Borsalino_, a film that premiered in 1970. So, likely about a year apart (assuming the film shot in '69), but hardly enough to explain the difference in ear sizes/location on head, not to mention jawlines and hair texture (although I suppose Belmondo could’ve gotten a perm; if it was good enough for Mike Brady, damnit, it’s good enough for the Pierre-Augustin Hulin of film distribution policies!). > > My answer is: Nope. > > And the survey says…? Given that JPB is in full on profile and MM is nearly in three quarters view, I think they could easily be the same guy. JPB’s ear looks sort of truncated at the top right quarter in this view, but that might be due to his ears sticking out like the wings of a majestic bird–rotate his head a couple of degrees toward the camera and he might display the full roundedness of the ears on MM. JPB’s hair is a bit more greased down here than MM’s, but also more greased down than the other photos linked upthread; and the part is exactly the same. My vote still stands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=40)