# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/781 "2014-05-11T10:33:03Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Given that JPB is in full on profile and MM is nearly in three quarters view, I think they could easily be the same guy. JPB’s ear looks sort of truncated at the top right quarter in this view, but that might be due to his ears sticking out like the wings of a majestic bird–rotate his head a couple of degrees toward the camera and he might display the full roundedness of the ears on MM. JPB’s hair is a bit more greased down here than MM’s, but also more greased down than the other photos linked upthread; and the part is exactly the same. My vote still stands. The trouble with the ear thing is that if JPB is turning his face toward the camera in the MM shot (to go from full profile to 3/4), his ear would have moved _away_ from the camera. So using the rules of perspective, the MM ear would appear smaller, not bigger. [Here’s a pic where the bottom of their noses are level.](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/belmondo_MM2_zps682b8c9b.jpg) In the area I’ve highlighted, you can see the vast difference between the ear placement and size, esp. compared to the nose and eyes. And even the shape of the inside of the ear: the bottom lobe on MM is waaay bigger than on Belmondo. MM’s ear top is still pointier, and the… oy, I don’t know ear parts very well… the opening to the ear canal is much higher on MM than Belmondo. (I also don’t think the nose is right. JPB has a _slight_ inward slope to his attractive nose. MM is rounder and fuller, and certainly no slope visible. I’m less certain of that because of the quality of the image, but I see JPB’s nose as more refined than MM’s.) In other news, as a researcher with a conscience I have to be scrupulous to the facts: after looking up the June 1970 that apparently some are pointing at as a reference to the 1969-70 award winners (which I hadn’t heard about until tonight), I see that it is actually _NOT_ from the U.S. _Photoplay_ magazine – the dead giveaway being the spelling of “colour” twice on the cover. 🙂 It’s from the UK’s _Photoplay Film Monthly._ Two different magazines, and as far as I can tell, they don’t have the same publishers or awards. The UK magazine lasted at least through the mid- to late-1980s; I see covers including _The Accused_, for example. So that cite isn’t valid. Still, we’ve got the NYT, _TV Guide_ and dozens of newspapers to back us up. And the fact that the televised 1971 awards (where Paul Michael Glaser won for Favorite Male TV Star) and the 1978 awards still went by the _Annual_ awards. I hate to be a stckler but “annual” indicates to me that they happened every year, up until 1978, at least. _Photoplay_ was ceased publication in 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/782 "2014-05-11T12:10:16Z")
Well it’s interesting, we’re now taking a microscope to Belmondo vs. MM. At least there’s enough of a strong resemblence to bother to do so. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/783 "2014-05-11T12:14:55Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > It would help if you actually read the entire thread. People have already posted references to the June, 1970 Photoplay cover that included the awards announcement. I’ve been reading the thread, it’s very confusing, and nothing definitive. The Photoplay awards stopped in 1968 when Rosemary’s Baby won. There’s a number of cites for that. So if the article refers to something else, it’s not clear. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/784 "2014-05-11T12:20:31Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Given that JPB is in full on profile and MM is nearly in three quarters view, I think they could easily be the same guy. JPB’s ear looks sort of truf thencated at the top right quarter in this view, but that might be due to his ears sticking out like the wings of a majestic bird–rotate his head a couple of degrees toward the camera and he might display the full roundedness of the ears on MM. JPB’s hair is a bit more greased down here than MM’s, but also more greased down than the other photos linked upthread; and the part is exactly the same. My vote still stands. I think when we look at the trailer for Le Manifique especially at .26 mark when he gets out of the pool combs his hair so it’s slicked down, and starts walking, smiling moving his head the resemblence to MM is quite remarkable. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cly4X01y3Yk/hqdefault.jpg "Le Magnifique Trailer Jean-Paul Belmondo") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cly4X01y3Yk) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/785 "2014-05-11T12:28:23Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s no way Richman could arrange a cover-up of that event. Cover-up? What cover-up? Almost no one seems to have cared at all about the photo itself until recently, let alone the circumstances. You don’t need a cover-up if it’s been forgotten about for 40-some years. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/786 "2014-05-11T12:35:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > The trouble with the ear thing is that if JPB is turning his face toward the camera in the MM shot (to go from full profile to 3/4), his ear would have moved _away_ from the camera. So using the rules of perspective, the MM ear would appear smaller, not bigger. > > [Here’s a pic where the bottom of their noses are level.](http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/choie_album/belmondo_MM2_zps682b8c9b.jpg) In the area I’ve highlighted, you can see the vast difference between the ear placement and size, esp. compared to the nose and eyes. And even the shape of the inside of the ear: the bottom lobe on MM is waaay bigger than on Belmondo. MM’s ear top is still pointier, and the… oy, I don’t know ear parts very well… the opening to the ear canal is much higher on MM than Belmondo. > > (I also don’t think the nose is right. JPB has a _slight_ inward slope to his attractive nose. MM is rounder and fuller, and certainly no slope visible. I’m less certain of that because of the quality of the image, but I see JPB’s nose as more refined than MM’s.) > > In other news, as a researcher with a conscience I have to be scrupulous to the facts: after looking up the June 1970 that apparently some are pointing at as a reference to the 1969-70 award winners (which I hadn’t heard about until tonight), I see that it is actually _NOT_ from the U.S. _Photoplay_ magazine – the dead giveaway being the spelling of “colour” twice on the cover. 🙂 It’s from the UK’s _Photoplay Film Monthly._ Two different magazines, and as far as I can tell, they don’t have the same publishers or awards. The UK magazine lasted at least through the mid- to late-1980s; I see covers including _The Accused_, for example. > > So that cite isn’t valid. Still, we’ve got the NYT, _TV Guide_ and dozens of newspapers to back us up. And the fact that the televised 1971 awards (where Paul Michael Glaser won for Favorite Male TV Star) and the 1978 awards still went by the _Annual_ awards. I hate to be a stckler but “annual” indicates to me that they happened every year, up until 1978, at least. _Photoplay_ was ceased publication in 1980. Well, perhaps an authoritative cite but my wife is some kind of savant when it comes to faces; I took the computer in to her and showed her your side by side pictures and asked, “isn’t this the same guy?” Without knowing anything about the ongoing controversy, she took one look and said flatly, “no,” and then mentioned all of your above points, having spotted them almost instantaneously. So, withdrawing my vote! As in so many other things, the spouse’s judgment overrides. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/787 "2014-05-11T12:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > And re: the boots… c’mon, it was the 1970s. All bets are off regarding what people wore. I mean look at the schmatta Robert Young is wearing–a shiny silver tuxedo jacket that looks more like a smoking jacket? (And Young is hardly some daring rebel European!) Meanwhile, Glen Campbell is wearing a _yellow_ shirt with a tux, which is a tad untraditional to put it mildly; plus, I dunno, it kinda looks as if he could be wearing boots too–not surprising for a country singer. Umm, just no. The people on the couch are established stars who would wear the styles of the day, which in the US did not include boots with a Tux. Even Glen Campbell could have worn cowboy boots and he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/788 "2014-05-11T12:53:55Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Well, perhaps an authoritative cite meaning _not_ an authoritative cite, of course . . . ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/789 "2014-05-11T13:45:51Z")
Nobody is wearing boots. It’s a trick of the poor scan (or re-photographing) of the image. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/790 "2014-05-11T14:50:23Z")
Has Leonard Zelig been suggested yet? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/791 "2014-05-11T14:52:17Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Has Leonard Zelig been suggested yet? Way back in post #6. He’s still at the top of my list. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/792 "2014-05-11T14:54:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Way back in post #6. He’s still at the top of my list. I am forced to agree. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/793 "2014-05-11T16:06:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Has Leonard Zelig been suggested yet? Nah. He’d be in black & white. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/794 "2014-05-11T18:15:07Z")
Charles Aznavour ?? (Mrs. Cretin’s suggestion which she’s already shot down herself.) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/795 "2014-05-11T19:21:56Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > I think when we look at the trailer for Le Manifique especially at .26 mark when he gets out of the pool combs his hair so it’s slicked down, and starts walking, smiling moving his head the resemblence to MM is quite remarkable. > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cly4X01y3Yk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cly4X01y3Yk) Jean-Paul Belmondo has a large and full-lipped mouth. MM has a narrow, thin-lipped mouth. If nothing else, that puts JPB out of the picture ( 😃 ). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/796 "2014-05-12T04:37:41Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I will go on record to say it’s [Dick](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Famerica.aljazeera.com%2Fcontent%2Fajam%2Fwatch%2Fshows%2Fconsider-this%2FConsider-This-blog%2F2014%2F2%2F17%2Fdick-cavett-on-tonightshowtransitionfallonisontopoftheworld%2F_jcr_content%2Fblog%2Fmainpar%2Fimageslideshow%2FslideShowImages%2Fslide1%2Fimage.adapt.960.high.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Famerica.aljazeera.com%2Fwatch%2Fshows%2Fconsider-this%2FConsider-This-blog%2F2014%2F2%2F17%2Fdick-cavett-on-tonightshowtransitionfallonisontopoftheworld.html&h=600&w=960&tbnid=xBiCpXEv4o_UHM%3A&zoom=1&docid=Lxvz6PsxhzOh8M&ei=7KltU6flD8i-oQTGx4CYDQ&tbm=isch&client=firefox&ved=0CF4QMygMMAw&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=2300&page=1&start=0&ndsp=14) [Cavett](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-tc.pbs.org%2Fwnet%2Fpioneers-of-television%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F12%2Fbio_dcavet_highres_article-148x148.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbs.org%2Fwnet%2Fpioneers-of-television%2Fpioneering-people%2F&h=148&w=148&tbnid=mAzrs_sGHYOUOM%3A&zoom=1&docid=MkYz74nVRq3P0M&ei=Ba1tU563DIvjoAT5v4CgBg&tbm=isch&client=firefox&ved=0CEoQMyhCMEI4yAE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=791&page=13&start=263&ndsp=23), caught at a weird angle. I just came back to the picture after a day away and I immediately thought it was him. I am of that era and know quite well what he looked like. For people who didn’t grow up with him: the ear is the same, the hair style and color is the same, the and the demeanor is the same. [http://www.thirteen.org/13pressroom/files/2013/01/Dick-Cavett-and-Richard-Burton.jpg](http://www.thirteen.org/13pressroom/files/2013/01/Dick-Cavett-and-Richard-Burton.jpg) Cavett’s left profile around the same time. I’m not buying it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/797 "2014-05-12T05:54:49Z")
Just reiterating, should we ever actually get confirmation: i think he will turn out to be someone who was not famous. A “suit”. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/798 "2014-05-12T06:33:43Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > [http://www.thirteen.org/13pressroom/files/2013/01/Dick-Cavett-and-Richard-Burton.jpg](http://www.thirteen.org/13pressroom/files/2013/01/Dick-Cavett-and-Richard-Burton.jpg) > > Cavett’s left profile around the same time. I’m not buying it. Yeeah, it’s likely wrong, but there are similarities nonetheless. Sure closer than some of the other guesses. My sister thinks it’s Sid Caesar. I’m not seeing that, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/799 "2014-05-12T08:58:48Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Jean-Paul Belmondo has a large and full-lipped mouth. MM has a narrow, thin-lipped mouth. If nothing else, that puts JPB out of the picture ( 😃 ). I disagree. Belmondo had one of the most expressive faces in film. Note how the face, the lips, the nose looks in side profile when he is smiling like MM [http://www.leparisien.fr/images/2013/04/09/2711179\_0.png](http://www.leparisien.fr/images/2013/04/09/2711179_0.png) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/800 "2014-05-12T09:17:37Z")
I also wanted to point out that smiling can changes the look depending on the person and camera angles . The picture of Belmondo not smiling that Choie posted does not reflect how even the ear looks different in the smiling screenshot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=41)