# Challenge! Who is the man sitting with all the stars on Johnny Carson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 30, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321 "2014-04-30T00:42:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/881 "2014-05-14T06:57:57Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > Nah, it’s Stan Freberg. Clearly, it’s Gene Wilder. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/882 "2014-05-14T07:01:53Z")
It can’t be anyone but Leo Sayer. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/883 "2014-05-14T07:48:00Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Just a wild thought here: Has anyone bothered to find out who the publisher of _ **Photoplay** _ was in 1970? :dubious: … And great minds think alike! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/884 "2014-05-14T07:52:12Z")
Oh, that is so awesome, thanks a trillion, **Vashbul**! Bravo (or brava?) and kudos to you for ending our long national nightmare. 🙂 But okay, I’ve got to say it. While **Vashbul** deserves tons of praise for getting the name and the hard evidence at last, and **Stoid** is risking an arm fracture by patting herself on the back :D, it’s _kind_ of frustrating that no one recalls the fact that _I_ was the one who first identified–and then had to consistently defend my contention against a fuckton of doubt–that it was the bloody November 11, 1970 episode of the _Tonight Show_ related to the _Photoplay_ awards, despite everyone who kept claiming that all references allegedly proved that the awards ended in 1968? Maybe **Vashbul** figured out it was _Photoplay_ on his own, for all I know, but even if s/he did, I did the grunt work too. Damn it, ATTENTION MUST BE PAID. In fact, my very first post in this thread (#68, back on April 30 – a week and 480+ posts before yours, **terentii**!) posited that it was a behind-the-scenes magazine/award bigwig: > [@choie](#): > > BTW, how sure are you that this is a show devoted to the Emmys? Because I found a few newspaper listings dated November 11 for the Tonight Show ([here’s a sample from the Hutchinson News in Kansas](http://newspaperarchive.com/us/kansas/hutchinson/hutchinson-news/1970/11-07/page-26) – zoom in for the 10:30pm listing) for an episode devoted to the \*Photoplay \*Awards, with guests John Wayne, Danny Thomas, Marlo Thomas, Karen Valentine, Carol Burnett, James Brolin, Robert Young, Bette Davis, and Glen Campbell. You can also see a _TV Guide_ listing for that date [from their Eastern Virginia edition](http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?615072-Retro-Eastern-Virginia-Wednesday-November-11-1970) (scroll to WAVY Ch. 10 Norfolk for the 11:30pm listing). > > Obviously the guy in question is not John Wayne, Bette Davis, or Glen Campbell. 🙂 But considering this group of people otherwise matches the photograph, this may help narrow things down. \*\*Maybe a producer from \*Photoplay \* (which, for you youngsters out there, was an early version of _Us_ or _People_) or something? \*\* So while **Vashbul** is absolutely the man/woman savior of the sanity of the internet, can I get some teensy recognition for all the _tsuris_ I went through to a) find the _Photoplay_ awards reference in the first place and b) remain staunch holding to my convictions against the tide of naysayers who insisted it was related to the Emmys/Golden Globes/Photoshipping/Men in Black? I enjoy the vindication on my own but I’m a Leo and my ego needs stroking now and then too. But seriously: huge thanks and congrats for getting that issue, **Vashbul**!!! I would love to know how you decided it was _Photoplay._ And if it was my initial research that led you there, then I’d like to at least borrow that car everyone’s buying you on weekends. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/885 "2014-05-14T08:02:05Z")
… And doesn’t Karen’s husband Steve look a lot like **this guy?** 😃 [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Eric_Braeden_Hans_Gudegast_The_Rat_Patrol_1966.JPG) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Eric_Braeden_Hans_Gudegast_The_Rat_Patrol_1966.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/886 "2014-05-14T08:10:14Z")
Well I absolutely could not, would not have done it without your laudable effort. I certainly used the data mined by you and others to determine that a few phone calls and a trip to the library was worth a shot. So credit where due is hereby doled out. But I’m guessing there ain’t gonna be a car. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/887 "2014-05-14T08:18:48Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Well I absolutely could not, would not have done it without your laudable effort. I certainly used the data mined by you and others to determine that a few phone calls and a trip to the library was worth a shot. So credit where due is hereby doled out. > > But I’m guessing there ain’t gonna be a car. Not even a little Matchbox? ☹ Wow, that’s awesome, I’m glad to have helped, and it is \*so \*incredible that you were willing/able to put your feet to the pavement and get the hard proof. If a picture is worth a thousand words, the scan of the entire magazine is worth… well, I have no idea. But at least as much as Robert Young’s crazy silver jacket. Your name will be lauded in song and story for as long as the _Photoplay_ awards were remembered. Which, okay, was apparently not all that long. (It’s really weird that the magazine seems to have been basically forgotten despite having lasted from the very infancy of films through the end of the 1970s. Shouldn’t anyone over the age of 55 remember it? And not just here… My sister/her husband are that age, and they didn’t remember it either!) Actually now I’m wondering… what happened to that **co** person who said that Carol Burnett’s employee asked her who it was, and it was def. Anthony Newley? Did that turn out to be a miscommunication? ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/888 "2014-05-14T08:42:16Z")
Be fair. Carol’s not going to remember someone she may have only met that one night. She took her guess, and it was wrong but better than some, by which I mean it looked more like Newley than some of the wilder guesses out there (you know the ones I mean). I remember Photoplay; it was pitched mainly to the ladies and my mom bought it now and then, for laughs you understand. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/889 "2014-05-14T09:02:53Z")
Oh definitely! Although IIRC she actually won the _Photoplay_ four times(!)–I think that might’ve been a record (maybe tied with John Wayne?)–so of any living winner, she probably had a better chance than almost anyone else to remember the poor guy. One thing’s for sure: we probably all owe poor Peter Mark Richman an apology! First nagging him, then assuming he’s senile. ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/890 "2014-05-14T13:37:17Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It can’t be anyone but Leo Sayer. I don’t think you’re being serious, but just in case, Leo Sayer was unknown in 1970. He didn’t start having hits until 1974. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/891 "2014-05-14T13:44:55Z")
**Vashbul** - I’m serious about paying for a membership for you, if you want one. I think it’s the least I could do - this thread’s given me more than $15.00 worth enjoyment/aggravation. StG ---
**Author:** ![DChord568](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@DChord568](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DChord568)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/892 "2014-05-14T13:55:46Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Waaaait a minute. That page shows another picture, with Traina and Johnny Carson but – _[who’s that person on the left](http://s29.postimg.org/h942rmu13/20091202_174632_e_orig.jpg)_? And what is Johnny holding? It’s something that’s about the size of a record album, but obviously thicker. I thought at first it might be a box set of some kind, but blowing the picture up, it looks instead like it could be something in a frame (hole for hanging it at the top?) So maybe a framed gold record or something? Just as with MM, there’s something familiar-looking about that guy. What the hell…this has been such a fun thread, we might as well keep it going! ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/893 "2014-05-14T14:09:01Z")
> [@DChord568](#): > > I don’t think you’re being serious, but just in case, Leo Sayer was unknown in 1970. He didn’t start having hits until 1974. I’m not sure if that particular picture is actually from 1970. But no, I wasn’t serious. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/894 "2014-05-14T14:55:49Z")
> [@choie](#): > > In fact, my very first post in this thread (#68, back on April 30 – a week and 480+ posts before yours, **terentii**!) posited that it was a behind-the-scenes magazine/award bigwig… Many kudos are due you for your efforts in determining the date of the show and the reason for the guests’ appearances. But since we’re giving ourselves credit where due, I feel compelled to point out that I was the first to suggest that perhaps MM wasn’t an actor but a behind the scenes executive of some sort. This from post #43: > [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’m beginning to wonder if the mystery man is an actor at all. Seeing as how he’s seated in the most prestigious spot next to Carson and most of the others seem to be paying respectful attention to him I’m thinking that he might have been the show’s producer or director. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/895 "2014-05-14T14:59:30Z")
Hey! I was the first one to say it wasn’t Sid Caesar. Also the first to suggest it was Zelig. We’ve all got some firsts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/896 "2014-05-14T15:21:34Z")
Thus the wink smilie. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/897 "2014-05-14T15:36:02Z")
Kudos to **choie** , too, of course. > [@Vashbul](#): > > Waaaait a minute. That page shows another picture, with Traina and Johnny Carson but – _[who’s that person on the left](http://s29.postimg.org/h942rmu13/20091202_174632_e_orig.jpg)_? I’m pretty confident it’s not LBJ. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/898 "2014-05-14T15:41:39Z")
> [@rucciface](#): > > He does look a lot like that Richman dude (but with kinder eyes), doesn’t he? Maybe they were separated at birth? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/899 "2014-05-14T17:41:42Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > I sent an email to Peter Mark Richman telling him we now know who the man is and thanking him for his time, and included a link to the article that **Vashbul** posted. Thanks for doing this. (I thought about posting something on his Facebook page, but when I looked at it didn’t see anything about this; I didn’t remember who in the thread had been in touch with him.) > [@Bumbershoot](#): > > I just hope his reply isn’t “I don’t care who it is! I’m tired of hearing about it! That’s why I said let it rest!” Well, yes. He might be pleased to have the information (to give to anyone else who comes across The Photo online in the future), or he might want the whole thing to go away. But at least you made the effort to give him some closure! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321/900 "2014-05-14T17:49:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Thanks for doing this. (I thought about posting something on his Facebook page, but when I looked at it didn’t see anything about this; I didn’t remember who in the thread had been in touch with him.) > > Well, yes. He might be pleased to have the information (to give to anyone else who comes across The Photo online in the future), or he might want the whole thing to go away. But at least you made the effort to give him some closure! 🙂 Believe it or not, I just got a reply a few minutes ago! Here is what he said: > [@](#): > > THANK YOU, [BUMBERSHOOT] FOR THE EXPLANATION AND FOTOS. FINALLY! > BEST WISHES, > PETER MARK RICHMAN [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/challenge-who-is-the-man-sitting-with-all-the-stars-on-johnny-carson/687321.md?page=46)