# Champagne vs. Sparkling Wine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [March 18, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291 "2019-03-18T01:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/21 "2019-03-19T15:56:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If I have UltraVires’ Famous West Virginia Hot Dog, wouldn’t someone think that it came from West Virginia? I would actually think you’re talking about a West Virgina-style hot dog, [like so](https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/katie-lee/west-virginia-style-hot-dog-2422753). SImilarly, you’ll find “Coney Island Hot Dogs” (particularly in Detroit), but they’re not from Coney Island. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/22 "2019-03-19T16:11:32Z")
Moved to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/23 "2019-03-19T16:20:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Thank you for the helpful reply. I just snipped this part because it seems incredible to me. I would think that anytime you use a location name, you are stating that the product comes from that location. You are sadly mistaken. [Philadelphia Cream Cheese](https://billypenn.com/2015/07/25/why-its-called-philadelphia-cream-cheese-even-though-its-not-from-here-fertile-land-and-clever-marketing/) is not from Philadelphia, and never was. Panama Hats are made in Ecuador. I would guess that most Boston Cream Pies are not actually manufactured in Boston. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/24 "2019-03-19T16:27:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You are sadly mistaken. > > [Philadelphia Cream Cheese](https://billypenn.com/2015/07/25/why-its-called-philadelphia-cream-cheese-even-though-its-not-from-here-fertile-land-and-clever-marketing/) is not from Philadelphia, and never was. > > Panama Hats are made in Ecuador. > > I would guess that most Boston Cream Pies are not actually manufactured in Boston. Swiss cheese is another one (of very many). If it’s being sold as “Swiss cheese” it’s almost certainly not from Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/25 "2019-03-19T17:40:25Z")
Next you’re going to tell me that German Chocolate Cake isn’t from Germany! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/26 "2019-03-19T17:53:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Thank you for the helpful reply. I just snipped this part because it seems incredible to me. I would think that anytime you use a location name, you are stating that the product comes from that location. > > If I have UltraVires’ Famous West Virginia Hot Dog, wouldn’t someone think that it came from West Virginia? > > Does the law really say “no harm, no foul” because West Virginia isn’t known for its hot dogs and if a consumer buys the hot dog thinking it is from West Virginia, it doesn’t matter because the consumer wasn’t getting anything special anyways? > > Perhaps I am misunderstanding the distinction. As others have pointed out with examples … like Coney dogs, Philadelphia cream cheese, Boston baked beans, New York cheesecake, Mississippi mud pie, California Pizza Kitchen, Swiss cheese, French fries, French dressing, Belgian waffles, German chocolate cake, Saratoga chips, Italian ice, Italian dressing, Russian dressing, Mexican pizza, cheddar cheese, Monterey Jack cheese, Colby cheese, parmesan cheese, … it is very common in the United States for products to have names that originate in geographical terms (or are coincidentally the same as geographical terms) that are not viewed by the public as indicating that the product is actually imported from or otherwise actually made in that location. Very often it merely indicates a _type_ or _style_ of product that can be made anywhere or from ingredients sourced from anywhere. Some product names have developed through an association with location, like California, Napa, Sonoma wine, Washington apples, Idaho potatoes, etc. It can happen both ways. The only distinction is that in each case the producers have to prove that the name is geographically significant and that consumers understand it to be. Panama hats is a particularly interesting case. Not only are they not made in Panama, but a _genuine_ Panama hat _is made in Ecuador_. Plus, in this case “Havana Club” is a _trademark_, which is defined as an indicator of the source of goods or services, in this case, “source” meaning _entity_, not _place_. It’s very likely that the meaning of a trademark will diverge from the meaning of a geographical indication. That’s why “geographically misdescriptive” is even an issue in U.S. trademark law, because sometimes trademarks including geographic terms will be misdescriptive, but much of the time they won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/27 "2019-03-19T17:55:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I would actually think you’re talking about a West Virgina-style hot dog, [like so](https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/katie-lee/west-virginia-style-hot-dog-2422753). SImilarly, you’ll find “Coney Island Hot Dogs” (particularly in Detroit), but they’re not from Coney Island. I have lived 34 of my 43 years in West Virginia and have never seen a hot dog like that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/28 "2019-03-19T18:02:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Very often it merely indicates a _type_ or _style_ of product that can be made anywhere or from ingredients sourced from anywhere. Again, thank you for your very helpful reply. I don’t mean to keep snipping the excellent information out, but I have a question about this. Why should Champagne be different in this regard? When the public thinks of Champagne, they think of sparkling wine, not that it necessarily came from that geographical region, exactly like the other examples cited. Why is it so special in law? Does that region have a good lobbyist? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/29 "2019-03-19T18:05:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I have lived 34 of my 43 years in West Virginia and have never seen a hot dog like that. Huh. Well, it is a style. We might be able to deduce you’re from [one of the orange or red areas here](http://wvhotdogblog.blogspot.com/p/while-vast-majority-of-west-virginians.html), then. 🙂 Chili and slaw. And [here’s an article about it](https://www.wvgazettemail.com/life/food_and_dining/wv-culinary-team-mountain-state-hot-dog-has-deep-cultural/article_d0438eec-0627-5594-8926-0624ca336682.html) from a Charleston, WV, newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/30 "2019-03-19T18:08:01Z")
And, not to post three straight times, but I can make a specialty hamburger for example, in my restaurant in West Virginia and advertise it as (making this up) “Helena, Montana’s Famous UltraVires Hamburger! Come and Get Yours Before They Sell Out!” and nothing can be done by anyone as a result of my blatant false advertising? I have never been to Helena, MT and have no idea what hamburgers they serve. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/31 "2019-03-19T18:09:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. Well, it is a style. We might be able to deduce you’re from [one of the orange or red areas here](http://wvhotdogblog.blogspot.com/p/while-vast-majority-of-west-virginians.html), then. 🙂 Chili and slaw. > > And [here’s an article about it](https://www.wvgazettemail.com/life/food_and_dining/wv-culinary-team-mountain-state-hot-dog-has-deep-cultural/article_d0438eec-0627-5594-8926-0624ca336682.html) from a Charleston, WV, newspaper. Orange. 🙂 I’ll be damned. Never knew it was a thing, even though I have at times travelled outside of my home county. 🙂 I meant the example to be neutral, but I picked a bad one. Hint: Never go to Yan’s Hot Dog place in Fairmont, WV and ask for ketchup on your dog. He will throw you out. I’m not joking. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/32 "2019-03-19T18:11:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Again, thank you for your very helpful reply. I don’t mean to keep snipping the excellent information out, but I have a question about this. > > Why should Champagne be different in this regard? When the public thinks of Champagne, they think of sparkling wine, not that it necessarily came from that geographical region, exactly like the other examples cited. Why is it so special in law? Does that region have a good lobbyist? (1) Because of history. For a significant period of time, a significant number of people understood the word “champagne” to indicate a sparkling wine from the Champagne region of France. (2) The producers fought to preserve this distinction, through advertising and marketing, through legal action, and through pursuing governmental protection of the distinction. “Idaho potato” is a protected term in the United States, because the government of the State of Idaho created the Idaho Potato Commission, which pursued legal protection for the term and sued the pants off of anyone who used the term in violation of the standards set by the commission. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/33 "2019-03-19T18:16:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And, not to post three straight times, but I can make a specialty hamburger for example, in my restaurant in West Virginia and advertise it as (making this up) “Helena, Montana’s Famous UltraVires Hamburger! Come and Get Yours Before They Sell Out!” and nothing can be done by anyone as a result of my blatant false advertising? I have never been to Helena, MT and have no idea what hamburgers they serve. The Office of the Attorney General of West Virginia or the Federal Trade Commission or a competitor of the UltraVires restaurant or a private citizen can certainly bring a false advertising or deceptive trade practices claim (the exact terminology will vary depending on the specific law that’s being invoked) against you if they think that (1) you are trying to mislead people regarding the origin of your goods, and (2) your use of the term “Helena, Montana” is likely to mislead consumers regarding the origin of your goods. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/34 "2019-03-19T18:17:03Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Next you’re going to tell me that German Chocolate Cake isn’t from Germany! That’s actually an odd one, as you may know by bringing it up: it’s named after baker Samuel German, who developed the recipe here in the US in the mid-1800s. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/35 "2019-03-19T18:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=Francis Vaughan;21543025 It is amusing that the city of Chedar makes little cheese and it’s name and style of cheese isn’t protected. Most other regional styles are.[/QUOTE] First time I’ve heard Cheddar called a city- it’s a village, and not a big one at that. There’s still a fair few cheese makers in the region, but the fact that there’s not really all that many is probably why it’s not protected origin. That and the fact that the ‘Cheddar cheese’ technique was spread around the world (largely by someone who was a cheesemaker from Cheddar), long before people worried about international naming conventions. By the time EU regs came along, that horse hadn’t just bolted, it was the founder of a global dynasty of horses and its great-grand children were dying of old age. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/36 "2019-03-19T18:29:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You are sadly mistaken. > > [Philadelphia Cream Cheese](https://billypenn.com/2015/07/25/why-its-called-philadelphia-cream-cheese-even-though-its-not-from-here-fertile-land-and-clever-marketing/) is not from Philadelphia, and never was. > > Panama Hats are made in Ecuador. > > I would guess that most Boston Cream Pies are not actually manufactured in Boston. Heck, they’re not even pies! ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/37 "2019-03-19T18:51:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Orange. 🙂 I’ll be damned. Never knew it was a thing, even though I have at times travelled outside of my home county. 🙂 I meant the example to be neutral, but I picked a bad one. > > Hint: Never go to Yan’s Hot Dog place in Fairmont, WV and ask for ketchup on your dog. He will throw you out. I’m not joking. He must be from Chicago. I think all of us raised there recognize catsup on a hot dog as an abomination. To my great shame, one of my kids likes catsup on hot dogs. I mean, I tried to raise them right… ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/38 "2019-03-19T19:01:57Z")
A couple of points. If you want sparkling wine from California, look for Domaine Chandon. They are owned by a French winery so they call their product sparkling wine, not champaign. There are a lot of different degrees of carbonation with different names. Trader Joe’s has Contadino Pinot Grigio Vivace which very nice and called semi-sparkling (I think). ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/39 "2019-03-19T19:18:19Z")
Interestingly, in the EU Cava is made with the same grapes and techniques but usually in Spanish areas, and doesn’t sell for as much, but kind of is the same thing. Champagne in itself is a blend of other wines, then fermented. I visited a place in Napa which “made champagne” and indeed was run by the company who produced the champagne in France using the same techniques (I’m sure others have too, and can name the place. I had had a bit then). Champagne in itself is a dry white sparkling wine too. Going from dry to very dry in scales. Sparkling wines are not limited to that. But I know when I’ve visited the US, that you ask for Champagne and you often get sparkling wine, and sometimes even an ice cube dropped in it. Rarely do you get actual champagne or even cava, but sometimes Prosecco, a sweeter Italian sparkling wine, such as in the AMEX Platinum lounge in Las Vegas’s airport. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291/40 "2019-03-19T19:26:36Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Interestingly, in the EU Cava is made with the same grapes and techniques but usually in Spanish areas, and doesn’t sell for as much, but kind of is the same thing. In Krakow, I can buy excellent, magnificent bottles of Cava (which is also a DO status product) for 15-20 Zloty a pop (about 3 or 4 U$D) that for my tastes is truly the best overall “Bang for the Buck” alcoholic beverage deal I have ever hit upon. Wonderful bottles of Prossecco are also dirt cheap and everywhere here, but the locals still seem to prefer thier wodka… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champagne-vs-sparkling-wine/831291.md?page=3)