# Champlain Towers South in Miami has caved in {2021-06-24} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931 "2021-06-24T09:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/202 "2021-06-28T18:33:05Z")
I had one that had a speed dial function where you could enter your most commonly dialed numbers. You’d access them by hitting something like #1. Wasn’t there a Seinfeld episode around that? Regardless, I doubt that’s what’s happening with that particular family although I have no idea what actually is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/203 "2021-06-28T19:19:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > My brother the lawyer: > Everybody hates lawyers until they need one. Often during and after that time, too. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/204 "2021-06-28T21:19:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Do you think they’ll recover all the bodies? I think they will recover evidence of everyone who perished in the collapse. I strongly suspect they will not recover bodies as such except in a few cases. While it is possible that there might be a void with a survivor (the young man pulled from the rubble early, Jonah Handler, was one such survivor) I suspect it’s more likely (and common) for the “human remains” they keep mentioning to be rather small parts of people that will require DNA to identify. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I remember authorities spent years dismantling the NY towers and sifting rubble. Would they do that for a natural disaster? This is certainly a disaster but I don’t think it’s “natural” like an earthquake would be a natural disaster. As large as the mess is, it’s not as bad as the WTC was. I think it’s feasible and likely they’ll search the whole pile. Two reasons, actually: engineers and other interested parties want to know what happened to hopefully prevent it from happening again, and there are already lawsuits being filed so what’s discovered in clean up will certainly be seen again in the court room. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I rather a relative’s remains be left undisturbed than have construction equipment digging out the rubble There’s no way they’re going to leave that pile on the beach. Not in a high-rent neighborhood like that. That said, care is usually taken to respect human remains in such situations. Most people will want recovery and burial so between that and the value of the real estate I expect everything will be sifted and cleaned up. > [@aceplace57](#): > > IIRC it took at least 8 years to clear the NY towers. (they were sifting all the rubble for plane parts and remains). Then several more years arguing over the design of a building and memorial. > > But they did eventually reopen. They cleaned up and re-opened the Pentagon after only 16 months post-9/11. Then again, there’s military efficiency. This will probably take longer than the Pentagon and less than the WTC. > [@Yllaria](#): > > Regarding the lack of drainage slope on the deteriorating floor - is there any chance that subsidence changed that? Drainage slopes are usually about 2%, at least on sidewalks. That’s not big enough to notice casually. Maybe. But I heard over the TV briefings something about ponding and standing water from day one. Can’t recall the exact details because I was at work at the time and my boss has this funny notion that work comes before listening to the news so uninterrupted and attentive listening doesn’t happen. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > [Family reports 16 calls from missing grandparents' landline in collapsed Miami building - ABC7 Los Angeles](https://abc7.com/landline-phone-calls-florida-condo-collapse-miami-building-update-arnie-norkin/10836763/) > > Not in the link but the family have said that they hope it’s not somebody playing a sick joke. > [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, there are single line phones with memory and redial features that use only power from POTS. They’re not even uncommon. Pretty much any corded phone. It’s hard to imagine how telephone lines could be intact though. I doubt any phone line from the upper floors could be intact, but the mystery calls are coming from unit 302. It’s possible that that floor is in a spot that isn’t that far from its prior elevation so a line could stretch or maybe there’s enough slack so it didn’t break. I though of a chuck of something poking into the redial key of the phone, with an occasional shift of the pile to give it a jab and generate a call. Less gruesome than some possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/205 "2021-06-28T21:39:10Z")
It’s looking worse and worse about the lack of maintenance in the building. > **[Two days before condo collapse, a pool contractor photographed this damage in...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-days-condo-collapse-pool-202849974.html)** > > There was nothing unusual about the lobby and pool area at Champlain Towers South condo, which looked clean and well maintained to a commercial pool contractor who visited the building last Tuesday, just 36 hours before half of the building... ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/206 "2021-06-28T22:53:23Z")
Sounds like maybe the kept up cosmetic appearances where the public went but neglected largely unseen areas. ---
**Author:** ![Ron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecae2f/32.png) [@Ron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ron)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/207 "2021-06-28T23:45:46Z")
They made a big deal how Israel Experts arrived to help even tho a few days late, yet they don’t say how Mexico Experts responded rapidly. USA never gives it’s neighbor Mexico ANY credit for caring or doing good. Even during Hurricane Katrina, Mexico sent in several Mexican Army Trucks in to help. And with the USA giving Israel millions of dollars of support every year, I don’t know how they can afford to send their experts to help other countries. And the news should report what floor did the people live on they find the bodies. Like they recovered 10 bodies, well what floor are they from? And does the twin building have similar inspection issues? ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/208 "2021-06-29T01:01:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > They cleaned up and re-opened the Pentagon after only 16 months post-9/11. Then again, there’s military efficiency. The damage to the Pentagon was also much smaller in scope, plus the massive overengineering of its structure kept the damage down. > **[How the Pentagon's Design Saved Lives on September 11 | HISTORY](https://www.history.com/news/pentagon-design-september-11-attacks)** > > On September 11, 2001, 125 people inside the Pentagon were killed. The losses were devastating, but it could have been even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/209 "2021-06-29T01:18:32Z")
Apparently the pool collapsed first. > **[Missing woman was on phone with husband as building came crumbling down](https://www.yahoo.com/news/missing-florida-woman-phone-husband-154523294.html)** > > Cassondra “Cassie” Billedeau-Stratton had heard her building's swimming pool collapse before making the frantic call. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/210 "2021-06-29T01:22:13Z")
This was covered upthread. Speculation is that she was talking about the structure by the pool, because the pool itself looks intact and full not too long after the collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/211 "2021-06-29T02:52:20Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > This was covered upthread. I’m haunted by the ‘blood curdling scream’ before the phone cut off. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/212 "2021-06-29T03:09:10Z")
Hearing a loved one’s tortured last breath like that must be at least as bad as seeing it happen. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/213 "2021-06-29T03:23:24Z")
[Miami-Area Condo Board President Warned of Need for Repairs in April Letter - WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/miami-area-building-collapse-condo-board-president-warned-of-need-for-repairs-in-april-letter-11624930495) President of the condo association urged residents to pay $15M in assessments so they could fix major structural problems, in an April 9th letter the WSJ got a hold of and posted. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/214 "2021-06-29T03:37:54Z")
I believe they’ll find multiple issues in that building. Perhaps bad concrete (spalling) , bad welds in structural steel, and a poorly laid foundation. The other issues that developed over 40 years, the ground sinking and pool made the situation critical. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/215 "2021-06-29T03:43:07Z")
So basically the predicted rate of deterioration occurred. This should have been monitored by an engineer starting from the date of the 2018 assessment. They could have installed temporary supports to shore up the concrete slabs. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/216 "2021-06-29T04:08:50Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Ron](#): > > They made a big deal how Israel Experts arrived to help even tho a few days late, yet they don’t say how Mexico Experts responded rapidly. USA never gives it’s neighbor Mexico ANY credit for caring or doing good. Even during Hurricane Katrina, Mexico sent in several Mexican Army Trucks in to help. > > And with the USA giving Israel millions of dollars of support every year, I don’t know how they can afford to send their experts to help other countries. Since this is basically a breaking news thread (even though it is not clearly marked as such), let’s try to avoid political issues, please. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/217 "2021-06-29T04:12:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > President of the condo association urged residents to pay $15M in assessments so they could fix major structural problems, Even split between 100+ people who are probably fairly well off, $15 million is probably a “gulp”-worthy number. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/218 "2021-06-29T04:14:24Z")
I’m sure it was. If it had been cheap i imagine they would have fixed it already. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/219 "2021-06-29T04:22:06Z")
It would have probably been a loan of some type and paid out over years. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/220 "2021-06-29T04:43:02Z")
Assessments had already been made, ranging from the $85k range for one bedroom units to over $360k for the four bedroom penthouse. The deadline for either paying up front or agreeing to have financing rolled into the monthly condo fee was apparently just a few days after the collapse. ETA the financing option was to pay over fifteen years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/221 "2021-06-29T04:48:48Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Even split between 100+ people who are probably fairly well off, $15 million is probably a “gulp”-worthy number. Which demonstrates the need for a legal requirement for a maintenance réserve, as @FinsToTheLeft mentioned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=12)