# Champlain Towers South in Miami has caved in {2021-06-24} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931 "2021-06-24T09:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/322 "2021-07-02T02:55:51Z")
what I’m wondering about is the eye witness report of the woman in the building. Was she witnessing the collapse of the pool area or acknowledging it had already collapsed? what drove the people on the North side of the building to come out and video it? Was it the noise from the destruction in the garage or the the massive slab on the other side of the building that collapsed by the pool? That sound would have traveled through the underground garage and out the opening they were videoing. they may be able to tell what occurred first. There should a security camera somewhere in the area with audio that could shed some light on the sequence of events. Possibly in the remaining structure. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/323 "2021-07-02T03:07:21Z")
local news just said US govt will pay 100% of recovery efforts for first 30 days. And my state (Ohio) sent a task force down yesterday to assist. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/324 "2021-07-02T03:07:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve spent the last 30 years immersing myself in history lectures by people who donated their time to give them. In all that time I’ve never heard someone in the audience complain about how polished they were. This is the point. The guy is an amateur and is sharing his knowledge with us. News stations are professional and get money for being slick. Having previously worked in sales, I know how long it takes to make professional looking graphics (or how much it costs to have them made because I suck at them) and how long it takes for rehearsals. It’s free knowledge, folks. If it’s not worth your time then skip it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/325 "2021-07-02T03:10:26Z")
I’m wondering if the collapse took a lot longer than we would think. There sure were a lot of people awake at 1:00am. Maybe the building was cracking and groaning for quite some time. Like the woman who got out from the sixth(!) floor. She saw a huge crack in the wall, large and open enough to let in outside air. But yet, the building didn’t fall then. And the woman who reported the “pool” collapsed. Did she mean a small part of the deck, where the water was seen, or the whole half? We’ll never know. Like if you know where to look, you can see the WTC was leaning slighly and a shifted noticeably before the final pancake collapse. Wonder how much warning the people inside the towers had. Not that it would have helped them. I wonder if Iwould have known to run. Who could believe a building would just fall without something damaging it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/326 "2021-07-02T03:11:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Will insurance cover them for this? Who do you sue? If the building is condos you sue the owners which is like suing yourself. > > Insurance may or may not cover some things, depending on the how the policy is written. Life insurance for the deceased, certainly. Insurance of contents within the unit likely if there was such insurance. > > As for who you sue: everyone you can name. The condo board, contractors, the guys who did the assessment in 2018 that’s being named a lot, the city of Surfside (really, they’ve already been named as part of a lawsuit), everyone. In situations like this about throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks Lots of insurance policies will have been triggered. All the life insurance policies. (although it’s going to be easier to file a claim if some remains are identified.) Every homeowner’s policy. The liability policy of the condo association. The liability policies of the engineer who did the report saying there were problems, and the one who did the report saying the building was in good shape. The auto insurance policies for the crushed cars… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/327 "2021-07-02T03:13:45Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Wonder how much warning the people inside the towers had. Not that it would have helped them. Most of the people below the plane did get out. Not all, but a lot of them. I knew people who worked on the lower floors, and all but one of them got out safely. The ones above the plane didn’t have any way to get out. They had a lot of warning, but nothing they could do. Some of them jumped, presumably thinking it would be an easier death than the fire that they expected to engulf them. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/328 "2021-07-02T03:25:45Z")
The condo association has more than just liability insurance. The condo association will also have a policy on the structure. When you purchase a unit in a condo, your mortgage lender will want both your condo owner’s insurance (covering everything inside your unit) and the association’s policy (covering everything outside your unit - exterior walls, roof, etc.). They will require to be kept notified by the insurer about the status of the policies - just like they are notified about any changes in your (single family) homeowner’s policy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/329 "2021-07-02T03:27:12Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I wonder if Iwould have known to run. Who could believe a building would just fall without something damaging it. Not too many. I’m a nerd and have discussed structural failure with engineers as a matter of curiosity. Just look at the Alfred P. Murrah building. It collapsed from a shock wave. I would have run at the sound of unusual building noises. Been there done that when tornadoes went through my area. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/330 "2021-07-02T03:58:02Z")
I lived in Hawaii for a few years back in the '70s. Much of Waikiki was built over sandy swamp, so buildings shifted often. I was innocently shopping in one such building when it groaned, moaned and then a crack loudly ran up one wall. I don’t remember how I got outside, but I understand I led the pack. That might have been my south California upbringing. When you are raised knowing that the ground really can open up and swallow you, you develop different reflexes than other people. Some folks might not know to run, others have it so ingrained that they run as soon as they sense something. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/331 "2021-07-02T18:15:50Z")
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/engineering-firm-october-letter-champlain-towers/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/engineering-firm-october-letter-champlain-towers/index.html) > [@](#): > > Maryland-based Morabito Consultants also was hamstrung because it needed access to the inside of the pool, which “was to remain in service for the duration of this work,” the firm said in its letter. > > Because the pool couldn’t be closed and Morabito had stability concerns, tower management was advised that work in the pool area “would be limited to removal of only loose concrete,” the letter said. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/332 "2021-07-02T18:58:51Z")
I hope the remaining damaged tower doesn’t fall and hit the good tower. Fingers crossed that the experts can drop it straight down. Theres not much room for error. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/333 "2021-07-02T21:10:06Z")
They better get a move on with that - looks like there might be a hurricane on the way… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/334 "2021-07-02T22:53:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope the remaining damaged tower doesn’t fall and hit the good tower. The remaining tower is a fair distance from the two nearest structures. Close enough that it _could_ crash into one of them, but still a ways off. One is a resort, which means it may not even have permanent residents. The two towers that are right up next to each other are on the other side of the resort. The logical thing to do at this point is to just bring the last part down in a controlled demolition. It has been more than a week: I strongly doubt there are any survivors under the rubble at this point. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/335 "2021-07-03T03:14:21Z")
A building several miles away was just deemed “structurally and electrically unsafe” after the city got 'round to bugging the owners for the required engineering report that was completed in January this year but not submitted. > **[North Miami Beach orders immediate closure of condo building deemed unsafe | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/north-miami-crestview-condo-building-ordered-closed/index.html)** > > The city of North Miami Beach has ordered the immediate closure and evacuation of a condo building after a report submitted Friday determined the structure is unsafe, officials said. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/336 "2021-07-03T04:04:36Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Every homeowner’s policy. I live in a hi-rise and my bank makes me maintain insurance. But in a hi-rise insurance is relatively cheap because they are not insuring the structure but only your stuff (known as “walls-in insurance”). Up-side…insurance is dirt cheap. Down-side…if my building collapses I get nowhere near what I paid for the place. When I bought the insurance there was nothing else on offer. I could not insure the “walls” (so to speak). I guess our building insurance covers the walls but I would bet dollars to dimes it is not really protecting me. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/337 "2021-07-03T04:10:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I live in a hi-rise and my bank makes me maintain insurance. But in a hi-rise insurance is relatively cheap because they are not insuring the structure but only your stuff (known as “walls-in insurance”). I don’t see how this makes any sense. How does insuring your possessions protect the collateral value of the property? Or does “walls-in” include coverage against (say) fire gutting the apartment? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/338 "2021-07-03T04:40:38Z")
The building has insurance covering the structure. I am not sure how that pays out but betting it won’t come to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/339 "2021-07-03T04:50:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I strongly doubt there are any survivors under the rubble at this point. I would pray to every known deity that everybody died in the collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/340 "2021-07-03T05:15:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It would be if the article wasn’t paywalled so I could read it… It’s not paywalled… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/341 "2021-07-03T09:01:03Z")
Huh… it was the first time I clicked on it. Well, OK, I get to read it now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=18)