# Champlain Towers South in Miami has caved in {2021-06-24} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931 "2021-06-24T09:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/665 "2021-08-16T02:02:49Z")
I’m wondering how the other two Champlain buildings differ from South. Did they remedy the deficiencies with the subsequent buildings? Install slop and waterproofing correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/666 "2021-08-16T02:23:59Z")
I believe I read the slope was correct on the sister building. Not being an engineer I thought this was a bit lean on column supports. He showed the original plans had beams under the planters on the pool deck area where cars parked above ground. They removed the beams in later plans but no additional support was given and the rebar was not correct to the requirements of that period. I would think that when you submit building plans you’d have to show your calculations. Based on the video the building looks like it was built with no extra capacity to handle deterioration over time and then they didn’t build it correctly according to the plans. I don’t know how you fix that without tearing the deck and basement floor out and adding more pylons to the existing caps. maybe they can just cut around the columns in the basement and overpour a heavier column with additional beams. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/667 "2021-08-25T18:25:30Z")
I’m sure it will come as a surprise to everyone, but: > **[‘They Were Bullies’: Inside the Turbulent Origins of the Collapsed Florida...](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/miami-building-collapse-surfside.html)** > > The team that developed Champlain Towers managed to build the condos despite checkered pasts, internal strife and a last-minute change that infuriated leaders in Surfside, Fla. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/668 "2021-08-25T20:39:45Z")
Completely not surprised. I have seen similar in Chicago. Developers usually have a cozy relationship with the aldermen (city council) and tend to get their way. I had a new condo being built across the street from me (totally fine). City ordinance said there needed to be enough parking built into the building to accommodate all the units (I forget if it was 1 or 1.5 parking spots per unit). The developer decided 0.5 (maybe 0.75…it was a long time ago) was fine and that street parking counted to make-up the difference (the whole point was to avoid having to use street parking). We (owners of 100+ units) complained to the alderman. The developer got his way. It was never even close. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/669 "2021-08-25T22:14:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/miami-building-collapse-surfside.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/25/us/miami-building-collapse-surfside.html) Link was to NYT, but googling the headline brings up multiple versions of the same article, none with any attribution. How does that work? Does syndication no longer require attribution? Or is everybody just stealing from everybody else? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/670 "2021-08-25T23:47:20Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Or is everybody just stealing from everybody else? Pretty much. There are zillions of content scrapers out there. They perform automated alterations/word replacements to get around Google’s filters. For example, from the original article: > Frank Filiberto, who was on the Town Commission at the time, recalled feeling as if the developers regarded him But from a scraping site: > Frank Philibert, who was on the town committee at the time, remembered that the developers felt that he and other officials were considered And another: > Frank Filiberto, who was on the City Fee on the time, recalled feeling as if the builders regarded him and the opposite officers And: > Frank Filiberto, who was connected the Town Commission astatine the time, recalled feeling arsenic if the developers regarded him and the I find the last one especially amusing since they apparently did a blind substitution of at=\>astatine and as=\>arsenic. It’s all totally automated, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/671 "2021-08-26T06:01:22Z")
> It was successful the mediate of summertime successful 1980 erstwhile developers raising a brace of luxury condominium towers successful Surfside, Fla., went to municipality officials with an antithetic request: They wanted to adhd an other level to each building. > > The exertion to spell higher was astir unheard-of for an ambitious improvement whose operation was already good underway. The builders had not mentioned the added stories successful their archetypal plans. It was not wide however overmuch information they had fixed to however the other floors would impact the structures overall. And, astir galling for municipality officials, the added penthouses would interruption tallness limits designed to forestall laid-back Surfside from becoming different Miami Beach. [https://www.qudach.com/inside-the-turbulent-origins-of-the-miami-building-collapse-5216.html](https://www.qudach.com/inside-the-turbulent-origins-of-the-miami-building-collapse-5216.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/672 "2021-08-26T09:42:01Z")
Colorless green ideas bribe officials furiously. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/673 "2021-08-26T15:33:20Z")
Time flies like a condo, fruit exerts like an adhd. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/674 "2021-08-26T15:55:07Z")
> [@Qudach](#): > > went to municipality officials with an antithetic request: They wanted to adhd an other level to each building. > > And, astir galling for municipality officials > > The exertion to spell higher was astir Right after the post about automated word replacement, we have a story that substitute “astir” for “as”, “good” for “well”, “tallness” for “height”. I don’t know what “spell higher” is supposed to mean. It makles it nigh-unreadable,. Me fail English? Unpossible! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/675 "2021-08-26T19:33:23Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Right after the post about automated word replacement, we have a story that substitute Uh, you realize that wasn’t a coincidence, right? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/676 "2021-09-02T14:07:04Z")
New York Times article on causes: > **[The Surfside Condo Was Flawed and Failing. Here’s a Look Inside. (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/01/us/miami-building-collapse.html)** > > A Times investigation shows how faulty design and construction could have contributed to the collapse of the building in South Florida. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/677 "2021-09-02T14:10:37Z")
I was just coming to post this 🙂 It’s more than an article, though, it’s a 3D simulation walkthrough of the many problems that may have contributed to the collapse. Very informative, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/678 "2021-09-02T14:25:29Z")
That was a really good article. So many failures in the construction and maintenance. Some of those shouldn’t have passed inspection, I would think. The whole thing is just heartbreaking. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/679 "2021-09-02T14:41:03Z")
It is now really concerning to think of all the construction that went up contemporarily, not just in SoFla, especially any that may have been part of a building boom or boomlet either regionally or locally. For instance in one of the YT engineering channels yesterday I was seeing pictures of Champlain structures where the rebar was not properly spaced within the concrete. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/680 "2021-09-13T01:51:17Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Colorless green ideas bribe officials furiously. I laughed! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/681 "2021-09-13T02:07:25Z")
Me, too. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/682 "2021-09-15T11:49:25Z")
I’ve followed this lady’s writing for a number of years. She writes about “legal, social, and economic challenges in U.S. association-governed common interest communities, commonly known as homeowner associations (HOAs).” I’ve always found her to be extremely rational, objective, well-researched, and forward-thinking. This particular article highlights Champlain Towers South but is a bit of a cautionary tale – one she’s been telling for years – about HOAs in general: > **[Will mandating Condo HOA Reserve funds help preserve safe Housing?](https://independentamericancommunities.com/2021/09/14/will-mandating-condo-hoa-reserve-funds-help-preserve-safe-housing/)** > > Independent American Communities Consumer Education for Homebuyers, Home, and Property Owners | Exposing Condo & HOA Dysfunction, Corruption, & Abuse | homeowners association, condominium, cooperative housing, affordable housing, housing... ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/683 "2021-09-21T18:19:03Z")
They had a fund for normal maintenance and repair. What they didn’t have was a fund for a poor design and improper construction. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/684 "2021-09-30T19:12:47Z")
The less than two acre site has tentatively been sold for $120 million: [https://www.newspressnow.com/news/national\_news/plan-approved-to-sell-collapsed-condo-property-to-uae-outfit/article\_5b6c8495-2d59-53f3-83eb-d84580115902.html](https://www.newspressnow.com/news/national_news/plan-approved-to-sell-collapsed-condo-property-to-uae-outfit/article_5b6c8495-2d59-53f3-83eb-d84580115902.html) Strange. Many of us at Straight Dope look at that site and think hurricanes and sea level rise. But so many others think “great place to live”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=35)