# Champlain Towers South in Miami has caved in {2021-06-24} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931 "2021-06-24T09:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/81 "2021-06-25T14:42:20Z")
> **[Missing Woman Made Ominous Phone Call Before Miami Collapse](https://news.yahoo.com/missing-woman-made-ominous-phone-111802273.html)** > > "In hindsight, you always wonder," her son said after the Surfside condo building caved in. > A resident missing in the [Surfside apartment collapse](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/apartment-building-partial-collapse-miami-beach_n_60d42b8ce4b00bad2be3c6aa) told her son the building was making loud “creaking noises” a day earlier, he said. > > “She just told me she had woken up around 3, 4 in the morning and had heard like some creaking noises,” her son, Pablo Rodriguez, [told CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/miami-florida-building-collapse-06-24-21/h_3c9d8d0b5ca84474ee66976457f8fb04) on Thursday after part of the 12-story building tumbled to the ground. “They were loud enough to wake her.” ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/82 "2021-06-25T15:00:57Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Forgive my ignorance (I have little experience with civil engineering - I’m mechanical), but I was surprised at all the HVAC/heat pump units that were on the roof; they look no different than what you would find next to homes in the suburbs. Is this a common practice in residential buildings of this size, or am I just seeing air handling components that happen to look like standard home HVAC equipment? It really depends on the building. My mother and mother-in-law live in condos built around the same time as this building. My mother’s building uses a central system with a large cooling tower on the roof and fan coils in each unit. The building maintains the central system. My MIL on the other hand uses a system similar to Champlain where each condo owns and maintains their own system, with the compressor until on the roof. Other than unusually long linesets, these are the same as the units you would see in a single family home. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/83 "2021-06-25T15:26:31Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > My MIL on the other hand uses a system similar to Champlain where each condo owns and maintains their own system, with the compressor until on the roof. I noticed there’s a number written on each one with a giant Sharpie and figured it’s the unit number. Looking at the video, when the center fell, that right hand portion swayed a few seconds before collapsing. How terrifying that must have been for a few seconds – you’re awakened by this rumble outside then your own room starts swaying, then oblivion. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/84 "2021-06-25T15:45:17Z")
Oh, it could be worse than that. Spoilered because this is VERY dark: If you were in a room that had a wall sheared off you’d not only have the horror of seeing that (some of the survivors from the still-standing units have spoken of that) but you’d know exactly what was happening as your part of the building kept swaying and began to fall. And you would have no way to escape. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/85 "2021-06-25T15:50:45Z")
Have they evacuated the building that didn’t fall? I’ve read these condos were 500k to 1million $'s. Homeless and they still got a mortgage to pay every month. That’s still better than the people inside the pancaked building. I know that was terrifying. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/heres-what-we-know-about-champlain-towers-the-luxury-condo-that-collapsed-near-miami/ar-AALoTsa](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/heres-what-we-know-about-champlain-towers-the-luxury-condo-that-collapsed-near-miami/ar-AALoTsa) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/86 "2021-06-25T16:48:05Z")
Yes, it would be for Surfside and Mia-Dade County (and probably the State EMA) to get federal-agency (FEMA, Corps of Engineers, etc) support with the work as it happens and in the investigation, and to apply for federal aid to recover part of the unexpected, unbudgeted expenses. Being an emergency rather than “disaster” declaration the aid to _individuals_ may be more limited and depend on the declaration’s terms. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/87 "2021-06-25T18:04:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Have they evacuated the building that didn’t fall? Yes. The same morning of the collapse. A lot of people had to be taken off their balconies by ladder as, apparently, the elevators and stairwells all collapsed leaving these folks with no way to get down to the ground on their own. There have been some brief interviews with some of these people. Physically, largely unharmed. Mentally/emotionally… that’s a little different situation. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve read these condos were 500k to 1million $'s. Homeless and they still got a mortgage to pay every month. Yes, sucks to be them, although not so much as for those under the rubble. However, given this was an upscale building I suspect that between insurance and personal resources they won’t be homeless for very long. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/88 "2021-06-25T19:23:05Z")
If this had been a high-rise inner-city housing project, there would also have been an emergency declaration. This is a tragedy, all around. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/89 "2021-06-25T19:26:46Z")
Latest update: 4 confirmed dead, 159 missing. That’s even worse than the original reports. > **[Surfside building collapse: 159 still unaccounted for as death toll rises](https://abcnews.go.com/US/biden-approves-florida-emergency-declaration-deadly-building-collapse/story?id=78482598)** > > At least four people are dead and 159 others are unaccounted for after a 12-story residential building partially collapsed in Florida early Thursday, officials said. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/90 "2021-06-25T21:24:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Salt water is corrosive. That’s always been a problem for things in/on the ocean. Heck, sea _air_ is corrosive. I’m about a quarter mile from the ocean, and I gave up on anything brass (unless it has a pre-patinated “old” bronze finish), because it’d be dull brown a couple of weeks after polishing. Not the way I want to spend my leisure time. I can only imagine what it’s doing to structural elements of the building. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/91 "2021-06-25T21:50:34Z")
I’m, not on the scene and haven’t any real data, but if you held a gun to my head and forced me to pick a root cause, I’d go with chloride induced stress corrosion. That close to the ocean is a fantastically hostile environment for steel, it takes the smallest cracks in the siding to allow sea air in, and structural members under stress corrode. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/92 "2021-06-25T22:06:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Homeless and they still got a mortgage to pay every month. I know you qualified this by saying that they aren’t as bad off as others, but even these people should be okay. Call up your insurance agent and they should be sending you a check to stay at the Ramada and be negotiating with your bank about a mortgage payoff. That is what insurance premiums pay for. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/93 "2021-06-26T00:26:38Z")
What does this mean? > [@](#): > > One of the four victims has been identified by family as Stacie Fang, the mother of Jonah Handler, a high schooler who **was captured** getting rescued from the rubble by firefighters Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/94 "2021-06-26T00:31:22Z")
I’m going with “who was found to be.” “Who was photograhed”. Sounds British, oi? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/95 "2021-06-26T00:38:30Z")
Captured on film (digital film for sure). ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/96 "2021-06-26T02:49:52Z")
Andy Slater of CNN managed to get footage of the collapse. > ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/97 "2021-06-26T03:15:11Z")
That was posted yesterday in post #16. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/98 "2021-06-26T03:22:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Have they evacuated the building that didn’t fall? > [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes. The same morning of the collapse. A lot of people had to be taken off their balconies by ladder as, apparently, the elevators and stairwells all collapsed leaving these folks with no way to get down to the ground on their own. I think @Aceplace was asking about Champlain North, not the uncollapsed remnant of Champlain South? Has Champlain North been evacuated? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/99 "2021-06-26T04:05:08Z")
Not yet, apparently: > **[In wake of collapse, Surfside mayor calls for relocation of residents in...](https://wsvn.com/news/local/miami-dade/in-wake-of-collapse-surfside-mayor-calls-for-relocation-of-residents-in-champlain-north-tower/)** > > SURFSIDE, FLA. (WSVN) - Officials in Surfside and residents of the sister building to the condominium that partially collapsed have raised concerns about the safety... ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/100 "2021-06-26T06:47:44Z")
From the video it looks like the bottom supports went first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=6)