# Champlain Towers South in Miami has caved in {2021-06-24} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 24, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931 "2021-06-24T09:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/101 "2021-06-26T08:32:28Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > …or the collapse was related to the fact that much of the ground in Florida is sinking in due to the effects of climate change – which is the excuse people use to pretend that it isn’t sinking because of ground-water pumping and everglade destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/102 "2021-06-26T08:39:33Z")
No reason it can’t be all of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/103 "2021-06-26T14:06:26Z")
> **[Crews at collapse site find body, raising death toll to five](https://apnews.com/article/miami-building-collapses-4e872d03fc3210b49c60e6a275f2e860)** > > Authorities say search crews have found another body at the site of a 12-story building collapse near Miami, raising the death toll to five. > [@](#): > > The oceanfront condominium building that collapsed near Miami had “major structural damage” to a concrete slab below its pool deck that needed to be extensively repaired, according to a 2018 engineering report on the building. > [@](#): > > While the engineering report from the firm of Morabito Consultants did not warn of imminent danger from the damage — and it is unclear if any of the damage observed was responsible for the collapse — it did note the need for extensive and costly repairs to fix the systemic issues with the building. > > It said the waterproofing under the pool deck had failed and had been improperly laid flat instead of sloped, preventing water from draining off. > > “The failed waterproofing is causing major structural damage to the concrete structural slab below these areas. Failure to replaced the waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” the report said. > > The firm recommended that the damaged slabs be replaced in what would be a major repair. > > The report also uncovered “abundant cracking and spalling” of concrete columns, beams and walls in the parking garage. Some of the damage was minor, while other columns had exposed and deteriorating rebar. It also noted that many of the building’s previous attempts to fix the columns and other damage with epoxy were marred by poor workmanship and were failing. > > Beneath the pool deck “where the slab had been epoxy-injected, new cracks were radiating from the originally repaired cracks,” the report said. > > Abi Aghayere, a Drexel University engineering researcher, said the extent of the damage shown in the engineering report was notable. In addition to possible problems under the pool, he said several areas above the entrance drive showing signs of deterioration were worrisome and should have been repaired immediately because access issues prevented a closer inspection. > > “Were the supporting members deteriorated to the extent that a critical structural element or their connections failed leading to progressive collapse?” he wrote in an email to the AP after reviewing the report. “Were there other areas in the structure that were badly deteriorated and unnoticed?” ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/104 "2021-06-26T14:17:46Z")
The first lawsuit has been filed. > **[1st Lawsuit Filed Against Champlain Towers After Partial Surfside Building...](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/lawsuit-filed-against-champlain-towers-following-partial-surfside-building-collapse/2480915/)** > > A class action lawsuit has been filed in the 11th Circuit Court against the Champlain Towers South Condominium Association in Surfside by a resident who owns property in the condo building. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/105 "2021-06-26T14:39:29Z")
That law firm is boasting on its website that it’s the first to file suit over the collapse. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/106 "2021-06-26T15:12:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It also noted that many of the building’s previous attempts to fix the columns and other damage with epoxy were marred by poor workmanship and were failing. Here on the North Coast column repair is done often. They sandblast the exposed rebar then paint it. Then they use epoxy concrete to rebuild the column. For small areas it can be hand worked but for major repairs I have seen the crews place a steel mold around the column and re-pour the concrete. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/107 "2021-06-26T15:26:31Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The first lawsuit has been filed. Are they not suing themselves? The condo association is owned by the individual condo owners. Unless this is just a legal maneuver to get the insurance to kick in, it makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/108 "2021-06-26T16:17:48Z")
It took me awhile to confirm what was said above about the concrete slab underneath the pool. The parking garage extends underneath this area. The above ground pool area was set up flat so there was improper drainage and there was extensive damage to the supports underneath. From the [Miami Herald](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252385083.html) regarding engineering review of building: The [report](https://www.townofsurfsidefl.gov/docs/default-source/default-document-library/town-clerk-documents/champlain-towers-south-public-records/8777-collins-ave---structural-field-survey-report.pdf?sfvrsn=882a1194_2) documented how the years of standing water on the pool deck had severely damaged the concrete structural slabs below. The problem needed to be addressed quickly, Morabito wrote. “Failure to replace waterproofing in the near future will cause the extent of the concrete deterioration to expand exponentially,” he wrote. The proper repair would be an “extremely expensive” undertaking, he warned. I’m not an engineer but it looks like we have our “sinkhole”. If the ceiling to the underground garage collapsed or a column buckled then there is your trigger. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/109 "2021-06-26T16:31:18Z")
On a completely different note I want to call Good Morning America onto the carpet on this. I was watching it the day it happened and they were going on and on about Britney Spears’ legal petition that included outside commentators on this “major news event”. Oh, and a building in Miami collapsed that likely killed over a hundred people. Seriously, you couldn’t have your Britney festival next week? . A building collapsed and you’re focused on Britney Spears? REALLY? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/110 "2021-06-26T17:15:13Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Are they not suing themselves? The condo association is owned by the individual condo owners. Unless this is just a legal maneuver to get the insurance to kick in, it makes no sense to me. It triggers the condo insurance, yes, but the lawsuit also will include anyone who had a role to play in assessing the building and making any repairs. It could potentially include the municipal inspectors for not catching the problem (depending on immunity rules for local governments). For this sort of litigation, the plaintiff always casts the net as widely as possible, because they don’t yet know who is responsible, or in what combination of responsibilities. So they sue everyone who might have a connection to the building, to ensure they include the ones that carry the most responsibility. For example, should the consultant that prepared the report and identified the problem with the slab under the pool have done more to explain the dangers? And all of those engineering and consulting firms have their own insurance. The original architects/engineers/construction companies who built it are likely off the hook due to limitation periods. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/111 "2021-06-26T19:50:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The original architects/engineers/construction companies who built it are likely off the hook due to limitation periods. If the original design was flawed then I don’t see how they’re off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/112 "2021-06-26T20:08:33Z")
Looks like a four year statute of limitations: > **[Construction Defect Cases - The Statute of Repose](https://www.fisherlawfirm.com/blog/construction-defect-cases-the-statute-of-repose)** > > This is a Primer on The Statute of Repose for Construction Defect Cases, affecting construction companies & their insurance companies. Click to read more. [a bit too long and complex to concisely excerpt, but a **very** quick read for the essence of the law] ETA: but let’s try this for the bottom line: > Pursuant to Florida Statute §95.11(3)(c), actions “founded on a deficiency in the design, planning, or construction of an improvement to real property,” are subject to the following four year statute of limitations and a ten year statute of repose: ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/113 "2021-06-26T20:12:30Z")
Would depend on Florida’s civil statute of limitations. Many jurisdictions have a combination of a « discoverability » rule and an absolute limitation period. The discoverabilty rule recognizes that if theré’s a hidden defect, the limitation period only starts when the defext is discovered. But an absolute bar can say that past a certain lengthy period, the action is barred absolutely, even if the defext not known to the potential plaintiff. Would depend on how Florida’s civil limitations operate. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/114 "2021-06-26T20:17:23Z")
**DavidnRockies** popped in just ahead of me - thanks for that summary. However, I would say it’s ten years. The four year period has an exception for discoverability (the reference to « latent defect »), according to that law firm’s summary, with an absolute bar of 10 years. Not meant as legal advice of course, just speculating about the law in a jurisdiction that I know nothing about! ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/115 "2021-06-26T20:23:03Z")
just read this: > **[Joy and sorrow amid boy's dramatic rescue, mother's death](https://www.aol.com/news/joy-sorrow-amid-boys-dramatic-204715474-223108186.html)** > > It was just a small hand waving through the wreckage, yet one of the few hopeful moments amid a largely fruitless effort to find survivors. Nicholas Balboa was walking his dog on the beach when he heard the rumbling he thought was thunder, he told... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/116 "2021-06-26T21:47:17Z")
Now they’re saying the leaky pool eroded the foundation. [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252385083.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252385083.html) > [@](#): > > In a 2018 report about the Champlain Towers South Condo in Surfside, an engineer flagged a “major error” dating back to the building’s origin where lack of proper drainage on the pool deck had caused “major structural damage,” according to records released late Friday night by town officials in the wake of the tower’s disastrous collapse on Thursday ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/117 "2021-06-26T21:50:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I think @Aceplace was asking about Champlain North, not the uncollapsed remnant of Champlain South? Has Champlain North been evacuated? Yes, I was referring to the other tower. It’s sitting on the same ground and probably sinking too. I wouldn’t want to live there. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/118 "2021-06-26T21:52:44Z")
this makes it even worse : [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-area-collapse-search-is-hampered-by-fire/ar-AALtsEy?ocid=SK2DDHP&li=BBnb7Kz](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/miami-area-collapse-search-is-hampered-by-fire/ar-AALtsEy?ocid=SK2DDHP&li=BBnb7Kz) ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/119 "2021-06-26T21:54:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Now they’re saying the leaky pool eroded the foundation Actually, “they” didn’t say quite that. This was said in the article, which is something else altogether: … It wasn’t immediately clear whether the issue was repaired or whether it could have ultimately contributed to the building’s partial collapse Read more here: [https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252385083.html#storylink=cpy……](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article252385083.html#storylink=cpy%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931/120 "2021-06-26T22:00:33Z")
looking through the cite above on court cases it does look like there’s a pretty short window of liability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/champlain-towers-south-in-miami-has-caved-in-2021-06-24/944931.md?page=7)