# Change in conservative fears about higher education? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578 "2021-01-03T15:37:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/21 "2021-01-05T16:57:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Look at Ben Shapiro. He claims to be a deep thinker. And yet, he has argued something to the effect of, “go to college so you can show people your degree, but don’t actually listen in class because they’re brainwashing you”. How utterly ridiculous! What a small fucking man! If liberal ideas are so ridiculous and easily debunked, why not listen? Afraid that your strong conservative mind will be poisoned by the Libtards’ honeyed words? Like I keep saying, all the right-wing screaming about snowflakes and safe spaces is, as is usual for the modern conservative, nothing but pure projection. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/22 "2021-01-05T17:26:38Z")
As to the OP question, it may be a perception magnified by an _increased inside-the-bubble publicity_ to anecdotes to that effect thanks to the social media and Alt-news environment. Conservative parents will see in their FB/Twitter/Whatever feeds an increased traffic of claims of this happening, whether truly reflective of anything real or not in either nature or scale. > [@Voyager](#): > > But I was familiar with the other side before I went. I wonder if the feeling of bullying comes from being forced out of the conservative bubble. And often religious bubbles also. Very highly probable. Especially if by the time you head out you are in “defensive” mode already. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/23 "2021-01-05T17:30:54Z")
I think you hit on it, which is that in a nation of 330 million people, any side can harvest enough news stories to feel oppressed. Conservatives can gather and compile any number of anecdotes and then present them in such a way that conservative consumers of such news would sense a nonstop barrage of persecution. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/24 "2021-01-05T17:53:51Z")
In that case, the ‘what’s changed’ is the rise of social media that allows such stories to be passed around and widely spread. PS. @Velocity, what’s your icon? I’ve been wondering for ages. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/25 "2021-01-05T17:57:36Z")
It’s a half-Israeli, half-Kurdistan flag. I only meant it to be temporary but have kept it for a few months now; might change it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/26 "2021-01-05T18:00:04Z")
In general, conservative ideas are usually simply un-cool. (Cool doesn’t necessarily mean right or wrong, but just more persuasive or alluring.) Being anti-feminist, anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, sexually restrictive, anti-change is never going to be as cool as being pro all those things. In addition, most celebrities, pop stars or social influencers lean liberal, and command a sizable audience. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/27 "2021-01-05T18:08:50Z")
Yeah, when I decide whether I want to trample all over marginalized minorities or not, my number one concern is how cool I’ll look doing it 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/28 "2021-01-05T18:12:31Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s a half-Israeli, half-Kurdistan flag. I only meant it to be temporary but have kept it for a few months now; might change it. Kurdistan! No wonder I couldn’t find it. Seems very random, does it mean something? > [@Velocity](#): > > In general, conservative ideas are usually simply un-cool. (Cool doesn’t necessarily mean right or wrong, but just more persuasive or alluring.) > > Being anti-feminist, anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, sexually restrictive, anti-change is never going to be as cool as being pro all those things. In addition, most celebrities, pop stars or social influencers lean liberal, and command a sizable audience. Yeah, but why are some ideas more cool than others? Just because of who supports them? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/29 "2021-01-05T18:17:21Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Kurdistan! No wonder I couldn’t find it. Seems very random, does it mean something? It shows support for people who have conflict with Arab countries in the Middle East. I will not speculate as to Velocity’s motivation in selecting this avatar in this thread, but as an Israeli American I don’t appreciate my homeland being used to score cheap political points and have rolled my eyes every time I’ve seen that image. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/30 "2021-01-05T18:17:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@puddleglum](#): > > > > I see it as an escalation of the same phenomenon, not a distinct phenomenon. In the past professors would try to convert kids to their politics with their teaching and grading. Now they are still trying to convert but are using their power to silence any dissenting voices so that students are not exposed to other perspectives **except as strawman caricatures**. > > [bolding mine] > > My irony meter just exploded, given that most of that paragraph consists of strawman caricatures. Even if **puddleglum** ’s “conservative fears” are based on false assumptions, they are still accurate descriptions of her fears. I don’t share these particular fears but I do encounter people who share them. If I recall, the topic is about whether the fears have changed, not whether they are reasonable. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Do you think this is correct (that the specific fears have changed, not that they are reasonable). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/31 "2021-01-05T18:23:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It shows support for people who have conflict with Arab countries in the Middle East. I will not speculate as to Velocity’s motivation in selecting this avatar in this thread, but as an Israeli American I don’t appreciate my homeland being used to score cheap political points and have rolled my eyes every time I’ve seen that image. You may want to cross Northern Ireland off your holiday list… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/32 "2021-01-05T18:24:57Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Even if **puddleglum** ’s “conservative fears” are based on false assumptions, they are still accurate descriptions of her fears. I don’t share these particular fears but I do encounter people who share them. > > If I recall, the topic is about whether the fears have changed, not whether they are reasonable. But **puddleglum** didn’t phrase her response as her “fears”. She phrased it as things that (she believes) were/are actually happening: > [@](#): > > In the past professors would try to convert kids to their politics with their teaching and grading. Now they are still trying to convert but are using their power to silence any dissenting voices… If she clarifies that she meant it as a statement of subjective fears rather than as what she believes to be reality, I’ll withdraw the “strawman caricature” remark. If she really thinks professors have been deliberately converting students for political reasons, my original response stands. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/33 "2021-01-05T18:25:27Z")
Northern Ireland isn’t my homeland so if you’d like to use it to score cheap political points I won’t stop you! ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/34 "2021-01-05T18:27:58Z")
The two sides like to fly Israeli and Palestinian flags there, so if you don’t like seeing it… I don’t know why, they’re all crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/35 "2021-01-05T18:31:04Z")
Ah, gotcha! Yeah that’s pretty odd, lol. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/36 "2021-01-05T20:55:09Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > In that case, the ‘what’s changed’ is the rise of social media that allows such stories to be passed around and widely spread. With a side-dish of ultracon media magnifying it for those who may have missed it in their feed, I might comment. But yes,used to be the boogeyman was seduction or indoctrination; if now there’s fear of that their kids will be outright _harmed_ as opposed to merely preached at, that does look like a recent development thanks to the multiplier effect of the algorithms. (Mind you, on the specific side of _religious_ conservatives the whole inexplicable narrative of an ever-intensifying persecution has been rolling along since before today’s college class’ parents were in grade school. So who knows if they would be there at this point anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/37 "2021-01-06T00:44:55Z")
Thanks for the small hijack about @Velocity’s icon. Which, ref @Babale, is not in any sense specific to this thread and has been in use for a couple months now. I had recognized it was two flags, one being Israeli, but had no luck finding the other. I’d been meaning to ask, but a suitable opening hadn’t presented itself. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/38 "2021-01-06T06:42:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Mind you, on the specific side of _religious_ conservatives the whole inexplicable narrative of an ever-intensifying persecution Seems pretty explicable to me. As society’s secular values have increasingly diverged from religious ones, religious values are increasingly seen as immoral by the wider society. And people viewed as immoral are not generally treated too nicely by the community. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > I had recognized it was two flags, one being Israeli, but had no luck finding the other. I’d been meaning to ask, but a suitable opening hadn’t presented itself. Lol, me too. That’s why I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/39 "2021-01-06T06:59:40Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > As society’s secular values have increasingly diverged from religious ones, religious values are increasingly seen as immoral by the wider society. You vastly overstate your case here. It’s more accurately described as a subset of _behaviors_, specifically the attempt to use religious beliefs to defend discriminatory practices and policies and other real-world harms, that are seen as (and, in fact, _are_) immoral. The broader sweep of religiously-rooted values are otherwise seen as neutral. It’s instructive to compare the American model to Europe, where I’ve been living for several years. Religion here is basically a background theme; governments are largely secular, and church-going is on the wane. But secular people and authorities do not negatively judge religious people and values. There are a lot of reasons for this, many of them based in hard-learned history, but one immediate factor is that religious people here are not activist assholes trying to use their holy books as hammers to drive nails of belief into other people’s lives. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578/40 "2021-01-06T07:04:53Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > But secular people and authorities do not negatively judge religious people and values. I can assure you we do negatively judge those we view as immoral. In many cases there is no conflict between values and we can live and let live. But that is not always the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-in-conservative-fears-about-higher-education/929578.md?page=3)