# Change Your Own Linens, Fuckers! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903 "2005-10-12T15:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/21 "2005-10-13T18:09:36Z")
Oh, I also forgot: do you really think teachers only work 5 or 6 45 minute periods per day? Their days start at around 5 am, they work weekends and take work home with them; plenty of their off time is devoted to their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/22 "2005-10-13T19:07:45Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Oh, I also forgot: do you really think teachers only work 5 or 6 45 minute periods per day? Their days start at around 5 am, they work weekends and take work home with them; plenty of their off time is devoted to their jobs. There was a time when I thought I would be a teacher. I definately would have tried for Math or Computers in HS or College level. The homework was a lot easier to review and grade. Elementary school teachers have a huge amount of work to take home and I couldn’t stand having to read all those English essays, year after year. History would be fun but still a lot more work grading than math. I suppose Gym would be easy enough. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/23 "2005-10-13T20:31:45Z")
Yes, that OP was incoherent, I apologize. Just a lot of different impressions about people’s judgements and mistreatment. And Bush hanging back in his response, waiting to see how the dust settles. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/24 "2005-10-13T20:55:59Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Oh, I also forgot: do you really think teachers only work 5 or 6 45 minute periods per day? Their days start at around 5 am, they work weekends and take work home with them; plenty of their off time is devoted to their jobs. 5 AM? My mom **never** got up at 5 AM(for work). Nor did she work very many weekends, but she did bring work home with her occassionally. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/25 "2005-10-13T21:33:32Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Please show us a blue-collar crafts’person’ who gets a starting salary of $42,000, a maximum base of $92,000, works 5 or 6 45 minute periods a day, gets lifetime job protection known as tenure, can take paid sabbaticals and gets the entire summer off plus sickdays and an additional 4 weeks of non-summer vacation days. And yet, oddly, you don’t see many blue collar workers casting aside their hammers and levels and becoming school teachers. I think it’s actually far more common for a teacher to throw up his or her hands and take up another profession. How is that, I wonder? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/26 "2005-10-13T22:33:21Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > Please show us a blue-collar crafts’person’ who gets a starting salary of $42,000, a maximum base of $92,000, works 5 or 6 45 minute periods a day, gets lifetime job protection known as tenure, can take paid sabbaticals and gets the entire summer off plus sickdays and an additional 4 weeks of non-summer vacation days. What teacher gets 4 weeks of vacation? I know several teachers, they get 2 or 3 personal days during the year. Do you recall teachers missing a month of school when you were a kid? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/27 "2005-10-13T23:14:13Z")
I think he meant Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Year and Easter. Or Spring Break. Or whatever PC term they’re currently using for it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/28 "2005-10-13T23:49:57Z")
On the whole Blue Collar Craftsman salary questions: I know Electricians, Plumbers and Crane operators that make very nice salaries. Both Union and independant contractors. Do they count or is blue collar only assembly line workers? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/29 "2005-10-14T15:52:47Z")
Don’t forget the welders. I saw a welding job advertised this month for an oil-rig welder that was paying $75 an hour for a 50 hour work week. That’s $3750 PER WEEK. I’m not saying it’s an easy job, but it certainly doesn’t require a university degree. Dare I suggest that the disparity in wages has more to do with whether it is a traditionally female occupation (nursing, teaching, secretary) or a traditionally male occupation (welder, electrician, crane operator)? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/30 "2005-10-14T17:59:31Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Don’t forget the welders. I saw a welding job advertised this month for an oil-rig welder that was paying $75 an hour for a 50 hour work week. That’s $3750 PER WEEK. I’m not saying it’s an easy job, but it certainly doesn’t require a university degree. > \ /nitpick Actually, my husband finished his college [welding](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding) course and was given a diploma. (He went for a full nine months course. He’s now 18 hours away from an associate’s degree.) You have to pass an exacting test in order to be certified in a certain type of welding. If you fail your [bend test](http://www.thefabricator.com/WeldingInspection/WeldingInspection_Article.cfm?ID=31), you don’t get certified. (Though you can keep trying until you do get the hang of the method and pass until the course time runs out.) He is certified in SMAW, GTAW, FCAW, and GMAW, and oxy-acetylene. He is trained in air arc as well, but not certified. (His instructor isn’t qualified to certify students on chrome and stainless steel. He can teach it, but not certify students on it.) /nitpick ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/31 "2005-10-14T18:02:16Z")
Adding, they also taught my husband blueprint layout to close the welding course. He is able to read a blueprint and construct something using that as his guide. ---
**Author:** ![aamco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@aamco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aamco)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/32 "2005-10-14T18:42:15Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I guess it would be nice if we paid burger flippers the same as, say, engineers > [@Balle\_M](#): > > Many blue-collar craftspeople spend years acquiring their skills. Why shouldn’t that be reflected in their wage? > [@featherlou](#): > > Dare I suggest that the disparity in wages has more to do with whether it is a traditionally female occupation or a traditionally male occupation? These three quotes are far more similar than one might think at the beginning. Salary is based on rarity of the employee, not by skill. Trash collectors are paid higher than most people would guess, simply because very few people are willing to do that work. Paying burger flippers as much as engineers won’t work - fewer people can be engineers than burger flippers. Likewise, although blue-collar craftspeople might spend years acquiring their skill, if time spent is the **only** prerequisite, then the number of people qualified for the job increase, and the wages go down. The jobs that were opened up to females first have a larger applicant pool – hence, lower salaries. The cause and effect are not in the direction you think it is. > [@fessie](#): > > All these low-paying jobs exist, but if people are unwilling to fill them, then perhaps they won’t be low-paying much longer? This already happens all over the country, in communities where the concentration of rich people is so great that none of the workers can afford to live there. Not surprisingly, minimum wages skyrocket, and the lower-wage workers tend to live in geographically distant (cheaper) places. And because this thread is sickenly sweet for a BBQ Pit thread … > [@fessie](#): > > Perhaps the rich don’t need to be quite so rich, so that the working poor won’t be quite so poor? Do people really need to be worth a bazillion dollars? Would it kill them to share? Fuck you and the communist horse you rode in on. If you weren’t competing with illiterate Mexicans for jobs, maybe you’d realize that people who are consistently rich are rich for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/33 "2005-10-15T03:05:17Z")
> [@aamco](#): > > And because this thread is sickenly sweet for a BBQ Pit thread … > Fuck you and the communist horse you rode in on. > > If you weren’t competing with illiterate Mexicans for jobs, maybe you’d realize that people who are consistently rich are rich for a reason. Well, I’m not competing with illiterate Mexicans for work, at least not yet anyway. I actually make a decent living as an artist (although I’m a SAHM at the moment) by selling affordable art to ordinary people. Not the wealthy. Since this is just a pit thread & not GQ, I’ll go ahead and opine that we all owe a debt to those “illiterate Mexicans” whose sweat brings affordable food to our tables. I suspect if itinerant workers demanded a living wage, we’d all be paying a good deal more for our edibles. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/34 "2005-10-15T14:18:58Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > /nitpick > Actually, my husband finished his college [welding](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding) course and was given a diploma. (He went for a full nine months course. He’s now 18 hours away from an associate’s degree.) \/nitpick I didn’t say welders were untrained or un-educated, either - just that you don’t need a university (i.e. four year) degree to be a welder. I don’t think there is a Bachelor of Welding degree (now watch someone come in and tell me they have a Master of Welding and are working on their Doctorate). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![zenith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zenith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zenith)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/35 "2005-10-17T20:57:44Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > Since this is just a pit thread & not GQ, I’ll go ahead and opine that we all owe a debt to those “illiterate Mexicans” whose sweat brings affordable food to our tables. I suspect if itinerant workers demanded a living wage, we’d all be paying a good deal more for our edibles. In my area, the packinghouses employ lots of Mexicans at wages of around $9/hr, with no benefits. The packinghouse workers’ union that was busted during the Reagan years got its members $10.70 in relatively less-inflated dollars plus medical benefits. The dollar is worth less than 1/2 what it was in 1980, so the big meat companies are paying less than 40% in “real” dollars of what they paid back then. Hamburger was about 60 cents/lb. back then. With inflation that should be about $1.40 today if wages had risen with inflation as they were supposed to. I haven’t seen $1.40 hamburger on a consistent (not one-week loss-leader) basis in a long time–have you? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/36 "2005-10-18T15:12:58Z")
It is ridiculous to assert that corporations don’t adjust to the local markets. About 8 years ago this area was basically at zero unemployment and trying to hire someone to make burritos or flip burgers was pretty tough. I was making $8.60/hr as a corporate maintenance worker and was depressed to discover that Taco Bell was hiring starting at $11/hr, twice what minimum wage was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/37 "2005-10-18T17:02:05Z")
So did you switch careers? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/38 "2005-10-18T19:35:59Z")
Actually I transferred to a different department not long after that where the pay was slightly higher than Taco Bell’s wages. And then a year after that I took the big leap into my current profession, where the average wage is probably about what I was making 8 years ago! (luckily I make significantly over the average wage!) ---
**Author:** ![Lazlo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lazlo/32/9678_2.png) [@Lazlo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lazlo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/39 "2005-10-19T07:42:13Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > My grandfather was an elevator operator, and then a machinist. He was able to support a wife and four kids on his modest income. It angers me that one has to be a professional in order to earn a reasonable living these days. Oh **fessie,** you don’t give your grandpop enough credit here. It takes a great deal of practice to become a successful machinist and in this day and age it is still a well paid profession. **aamco,** \ The next time you don’t pay $10 for a piece of fresh produce or $20 for a fast food meal, you may extend your thanks to those “illiterate” Mexicans. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2005, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903/40 "2005-10-19T09:10:21Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > [Isn’t capitalism wonderful?](http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/10/09/big_easy_businesses_lack_workers_to_hire/) Nah…it sucks! Not only has it provided the highest standard of living and the highest consistant quality of products for the greatest number of people, it has also failed to provide equal misery and deprivation for all. “Power to the people!” “From each according to his abilites, to each according to his needs!” “What we’re gonna do is, we’re gonna take things away from you for the common good!” Yay, communism!..Equal time in line for a loaf of bread for everyone! :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/change-your-own-linens-fuckers/325903.md?page=3)