# Changes in American English **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 9, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606 "2009-01-09T23:10:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/1 "2009-01-09T23:10:51Z")
My visa application is finally en route. I have been back in the US for seven months and I hope to be gone soon. Still, while back in the US, I have noticed a lot of changes in the pronunciation of American English. Or am I nuts? “Black” for “Block” is the classic example, part of the Great Vowel Shift. The “California Accent” where all sentences end in an final inflection like a question? Even TV announcers seem to be doing it. **Have you noticed changes in the American accent in the last couple of years?** ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/2 "2009-01-09T23:17:38Z")
No I haven’t, but it’s interesting that you have. I am probably too close to it to notice (I am guessing). Slight Nitpick: the California accent has nothing to do with the inflection going up at the end, that’s just annoying. It might be typical “valley girl” but I don’t know anyone who talks that way anymore and few Californian’s, as a general rule, actually do that. The California accent is more typified by lazy a’s (uhh instead of ahh) and is otherwise very similar to “Standard American” or a Midwestern Accent. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/3 "2009-01-09T23:35:43Z")
We used to say that there was only one accent from Denver to the sea. Now California seems to be gaining its own. As for the Valley Girl thing? I noticed in most in a conversation with another language teacher? Annoying as hell? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/4 "2009-01-10T00:05:58Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The California accent is more typified by lazy a’s (uhh instead of ahh) and is otherwise very similar to “Standard American” or a Midwestern Accent. I think what you mean is that Californian dialect doesn’t have /ɔ/, and instead uses /ɑ/, so that “cot” and “caught” are pronounced the same. But that’s not only in California. (Terms like “lazy a” are pretty murky in print communication.) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/5 "2009-01-10T00:22:19Z")
Watch “The Hills” on MTV for the California accent. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/6 "2009-01-10T00:23:46Z")
There are sooooooooo many regional variations of pronunciation in American English. It makes it hard to opine on this. I’ll just say that I haven’t heard any differences in my area. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/7 "2009-01-10T00:33:35Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think what you mean is that Californian dialect doesn’t have /ɔ/, and instead uses /ɑ/, so that “cot” and “caught” are pronounced the same. But that’s not only in California. (Terms like “lazy a” are pretty murky in print communication.) Well sure, if you want to get all “knowledgable” about it, dude. 😛 I mearly parrot what I learned in voice and speach class low these many years ago. I just wanted to point out that the California accent has nothing to do with up talking, which is annoying and which I have never heard anyone actually from California do since I was about 10 years old, and I grew up in the Valley. You do get a weird variation on it with people who grew up in Beverly Hills, but it isn’t quite the same thing and those people are universally dispised by the rest of the folks from Southern California. All you people from Northern Califonia who may be reading this, you should know that it is \*this \*group that you actually hate, the rest of us are pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/8 "2009-01-10T04:58:18Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > “Black” for “Block” is the classic example, part of the Great Vowel Shift. I’ve never heard this. Where were you when someone spoke like this? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/9 "2009-01-10T05:18:00Z")
I’m a CA native & no Californian I ever met pronounced cot & caught the same way. In Californian, “cot” has the standard short o sound, and also is brief in duration. If someone stretched out the duration of the vowel sound without changing the sound produced, it’d be close to the Boston haahvaaaahd yaaahd if you concentrate on the aaa sound & don’t include the trailing h sound. “caught” is much more like “cawt”. The vowel duration is still short, but the sound is the same as “aw” in “Aww, shucks.” And I’m seconding the above poster’s question about black & block. Who and where allegedly pronounces which word like which? I’ve spent years traveling all over the US, and never heard anyone anywhere say something which sounds to me like “the drug store is 3 blacks up on your right”. Neither have I heard “That’s a nice clean block car you have there”. I’m always interested to learn of some new regionalism though. Paul? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/10 "2009-01-10T05:33:11Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m a CA native & no Californian I ever met pronounced cot & caught the same way. I cannot imagine how those words would be pronounced differently. I didn’t even understand your explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/11 "2009-01-10T06:20:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m a CA native & no Californian I ever met pronounced cot & caught the same way. > > In Californian, “cot” has the standard short o sound, and also is brief in duration. If someone stretched out the duration of the vowel sound without changing the sound produced, it’d be close to the Boston haahvaaaahd yaaahd if you concentrate on the aaa sound & don’t include the trailing h sound. > > “caught” is much more like “cawt”. The vowel duration is still short, but the sound is the same as “aw” in “Aww, shucks.” > > And I’m seconding the above poster’s question about black & block. Who and where allegedly pronounces which word like which? I’ve spent years traveling all over the US, and never heard anyone anywhere say something which sounds to me like “the drug store is 3 blacks up on your right”. Neither have I heard “That’s a nice clean block car you have there”. > > I’m always interested to learn of some new regionalism though. Paul? > [@RickJay](#): > > I cannot imagine how those words would be pronounced differently. I didn’t even understand your explanation. I’m born and raised in California and “cot” an “caught” are homophones as far as I"m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![vintageloveletter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@vintageloveletter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vintageloveletter)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/12 "2009-01-10T07:17:47Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think what you mean is that Californian dialect doesn’t have /ɔ/, and instead uses /ɑ/, so that “cot” and “caught” are pronounced the same. But that’s not only in California. This is the low back merger which is heard throughout the Northeast and the West. When the pitch rises on the end of a statement that is not a question, then this is called “uptalk”. Usually women are the ones doing “uptalking” and its not particular to California. ---
**Author:** ![Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Words_on_the_Interweb)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/13 "2009-01-10T08:19:21Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m a CA native & no Californian I ever met pronounced cot & caught the same way. \ > > “caught” is much more like “cawt”. The vowel duration is still short, but the sound is the same as “aw” in “Aww, shucks.” Third generation native Californian and couldn’t figure out how cot and caught would even be pronounced differently until your explanation. I’m tired, and the only difference I could come up with was pronouncing the “gh” as an “f” sound as in draught, heh. On reflection, pronouncing an “aw” sound in “caught” is something I’d associate with Brits, East Coasters, and maybe Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/14 "2009-01-10T11:41:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I cannot imagine how those words would be pronounced differently. I didn’t even understand your explanation. It’s hard to convey pronunciation explanations in print with terms like “long” or “short o sound,” because that makes it seem as though there were only ten vowels in English: a long one and a short one for each of the _written_ vowel _letters_. **vintageloveletter** ’s description, while terse, gives a better sense of the sounds, in that there are two low back vowels (some would say three, but for me that’s more about the prosody of the utterance) which are distinct for most Americans in the East that are generally pronounced the same for most of those in the West. I guess a better way to explain it is that for most Westerners “not” and “naught” are generally pronounced the same ([nɒt] or [nɒt]), but for Easterners, with the vowel in “naught” ([nɔt]), the mouth is somewhat tenser and the sound produced lower in the mouth than “not.” **LSLGuy** , though, says he has always heard a difference with Californians. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/15 "2009-01-10T12:29:54Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > “Black” for “Block” is the classic example, part of the Great Vowel Shift. You mean the Great [Lakes](http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2007-04-10/haynie-vowelshift) Vowel Shift, Shirley. 😃 Basically a white multiethnic way of talking that turns you into a [Superfan](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msSB5ev41Sk&feature=related). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/16 "2009-01-10T12:38:04Z")
Smart People in the language business say that such a vowel shift (which began in the Great Lakes area) will spread and consume us all. (I see the new president if from the region.) What I find remarkable is how often I catch newscasters, who speak for a living, doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/17 "2009-01-10T12:40:28Z")
The uptalking makes me want to get violent. It’s not regional, just stupid. I hear it from customers across the board, and while women are more likely to do it they’re not alone in it. I will say that 20-some-odd years ago, my speech and drama teacher encouraged us to do it, as “it makes you sound more upbeat.” I told her it makes me sound more retarded and refused to do it. As for \*black \*for \*block \*-- isn’t that just a Bostonian thing? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/18 "2009-01-10T13:13:05Z")
Clearly there’s more going on here than expected. I was raised in LA, from three on, and I pronounce… cot = kaht caught = kawt It’s clearly heard in my everyday speech. One of the oddnesses I show off is the ‘oo’ sound in the middle of words. Boom = bum with a slightly drawn out uu sound. Buumtown Rats. For the record: South of LA, in Redondo Beach, in the shadow of the Palos Verdes Peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/19 "2009-01-10T13:31:48Z")
> [@Litoris](#): > > As for \*black \*for \*block \*-- isn’t that just a Bostonian thing? It’s Bawlamerese too. (Bawlamer = Baltimore for those unfamiliar with the accent) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606/20 "2009-01-10T13:45:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I cannot imagine how those words would be pronounced differently. I didn’t even understand your explanation. Cot rhymes with hot, caught rhymes with ought. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-american-english/480606.md?page=2)