# Changes in security over time (imposter, scams, etc.) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 7, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591 "2021-05-07T14:10:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/41 "2021-05-10T04:15:29Z")
My white cane (blind) is the telescoping model. that scrunches down to a white baton about a foot long. After checking my bags at Houston airport, I was cooling it in the main concourse, and by and by, a security man wandered over and in a casual fashion pointed to it and said “Whats that?” I popped it open and displayed its workings, to his satisfaction. Only then did I notice that he had already called for backup, and I was surrounded by several other security personnel, breathing a collecctive sigh of relief. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/42 "2021-05-10T04:26:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I suppose Canada, being a more civilized place, kept up that tradition awhile longer. Can confirm. I was a regular passenger on an Air Canada 747 into Kai Tak around 1996. I asked to sit in the jump seat for the approach & landing - no problem! The approach was flown manually very low over a densely populated city, if I were a crazy person or a terrorist I could probably have dumped the aircraft into the middle of Mongkok and killed thousands of people. Quite honestly, even then (pre 9/11, obviously) I thought it was pretty irresponsible of them to allow it. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/43 "2021-05-10T04:43:59Z")
But of course these security lapses are trivial compared to the security problems now common because of the internet. For example a major fuel pipeline on the East coast is currently shut down because of a ransomware attack: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pipeline-shutdown-has-had-little-impact-on-supplies-so-far/ar-BB1gxwnO](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pipeline-shutdown-has-had-little-impact-on-supplies-so-far/ar-BB1gxwnO) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/44 "2021-05-10T04:58:52Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Speaking of drivers’ licenses: > > When I first got my driver’s license, in Wisconsin in 1981, it did not feature a photograph – at that time, Wisconsin’s driver’s licenses were just a paper ID card, with name, address, birthdate, and ID number. Wisconsin had a separate “photo ID card” which they issued, which one could get once one turned 18 (the legal drinking age in the state at the time), in order to show a photo ID to get into bars. > > By the time I got my first renewal of my driver’s license, in 1984, they had finally started issuing licenses with photographs. (I still have that license, and wow, I had a lot of hair when I was 19…) Yup. Wisconsin was the (or at least one of the) last states to get a photo on it’s license. This is due to some horseshit Lynn Adelman maneuvered while he was in the state legislature. For some reason he liked that people were using other peoples licenses to drive. The license was just a card with the state seal printed all over it. Reddish seals were for probationary licenses, blue seals for regular. Temps were just printed on pink colored paper. We used to refer to that ID card (which were usually issued by the county register of deeds even though it was a state ID) as a “beer card” and later on as a “walkers license”. I hated those ID cards because they were bigger than what standard ID cards and drivers licenses are today and it didn’t fit right into many mens wallets. One thing that’s changed in security is that it used to be easy to get a real ID. Just take an older friends or siblings birth certificate in and say it’s you and they’d give you an ID card. There were a lot of us in the 70’s that were only 15 or 16 that had ID cards saying we were over 18. It was also easy to get a very good fake ID. Up until the early/mid 80’s when the feds cracked down there were companies selling fake state ID through the mail that looked identical to the real thing. There was a company in Florida named **Uniphoto** that sold ID cards so good that when placed next to the real thing one could not tell the difference. Had all the seals and embossments and everything. And that was back in the day before laser printers, digital photography, etc… ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/45 "2021-05-10T05:59:17Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Bootb](#): > > > > Even today, security at private companies tends to be somewhat lax. I’ve worked at places where you have to scan your employee badge to open employee-only doors. The rule is that door-holding is not allowed, and that every person must scan his badge to get in. But unless the rule is VERY strictly enforced, it will be broken routinely. You see, people in general like to be helpful. > > Indeed – employees at the ad agency where I work have to take a bunch of annual training/refresher video courses on various things, including security measures. “Do not hold security doors open for people, no matter how nice they seem” is one of the specific topics, but you’re right, it’s asking people go against human nature. Where I work, they’ve solved this problem by installing revolving doors, though which only one person can enter at a time. If more than one person tries to squeeze in them, it’ll set off an alarm, and the door will stall. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2021, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/46 "2021-05-10T10:42:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > The license was just a card with the state seal printed all over it. When I turned 21, Pennsylvania was still issuing PA Liquor Control Board cards, which were used as ID when purchasing liquor. They were yellow cards encased in plastic, embossed with the state seal. A tattoo artist friend got the yellow cardboard, sheets of the plastic, etc and figured out a way to bake the card on the oven under weights that made the embossed design. They were perfect! He was making them for people, making some cash, when the cards were discontinued. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/47 "2021-05-12T01:46:02Z")
Yep - we routinely get no-tailgating memos (not that this has been an issue for quite some time now, what with COVID and working from home). One time when I’d forgotten my badge and had to sign in and get a temporary one - of the peel-and-stick variety - someone actually checked me before letting me go in on his badge swipe, other times it was a non-issue, and I think seemed to somewhat expected by the guards. This would have been in the early 00’s (prior to 2008 when we moved to a different building). I did try to be somewhat dliligent, and on one occasion a woman was waiting to meet someone and really needed to use the restroom, so I walked to the restroom with her and waited outside until I could escort her back outside. In one of the early Airport movies, there was a woman (played by Helen Hayes, I think) who made somewhat of a game of sneaking onto flights with an empty ticket envelope. I can believe it people managed that in real life. My first Pennsylvania driver’s license, back in the mid 1970s, was a plain pasteboard thing with all my info printed on it. Harder to fake, back then, because of course people didn’t own the kinds of printers that would easily duplicate those, but still - no photo, so I could easily have loaned or borrowed one. It wasn’t until 1981 that my license had a photo (in NC - no clue when PA got them but it was certainly after that). I also, at one point, had 3 valid PA licenses in my wallet: my junior license - also known as a Cinderalla license as you weren’t allowed to drive after midnight except for work or for family emergencies (and valid through the end of the month I turned 18), my provisional senior license issued at age 17 and valid until the end of the month I turned 18, and my permanent senior license, issued the month I turned 18 - so it overlapped the other two for about 3 weeks. > [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > Fortunately they had not even closed the doors yet, so I was able to get off and catch my correct flight, which had been moved to a different gate at the last minute. A fellow I knew from work managed to wind up in the wrong city this way - this would have been in the early 1990s. I forget where he wanted to go and where he went, but one of the destinations was in Kentucky and the other was most definitely NOT in Kentucky, ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/48 "2021-05-12T02:13:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Wisconsin was the (or at least one of the) last states to get a photo on it’s license. New York didn’t get them until -84. Truly ridiculous. And it took longer than that for New York City to get cable television. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/49 "2021-05-12T22:29:59Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > > [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > > > Fortunately they had not even closed the doors yet, so I was able to get off and catch my correct flight, which had been moved to a different gate at the last minute. > > A fellow I knew from work managed to wind up in the wrong city this way - this would have been in the early 1990s. I forget where he wanted to go and where he went, but one of the destinations was in Kentucky and the other was most definitely NOT in Kentucky, Sorta like this you mean 😆: > [@Why are passports no good within six months of expiration?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-passports-no-good-within-six-months-of-expiration/930434/41): > > Back in the day before boarding passes were scanned by a computer before you get down the jetbridge, it was common enough for somebody to get on the wrong flight. If it wasn’t full, the seat assignment for the correct flight might still work on the wrong flight, or the two folks mistakenly both in 14B would sort out a solution with or without FA involvement, but in any case with nobody updating any computers. > > So one day in a raging snowstorm we launch off from the hub bound for Cancun 3 hours late. For us it’s fly down about 4-1/2 hours, hang out 90 minutes on board the plane then fly the same plane back. So planned for about a 12-hour workday including our pre- and post- duties. Plus the delay = 15 hours. We don’t deal with immigration or customs at all as long as we stay on the plane. > > We get about halfway there and the FA notifies us we have a passenger aboard who was going to Des Moines, not Cancun. I corrected her: “Nope, he’s going to Cancun, _then_ back to the hub, _then_ to Des Moines.” This came to light when they started passing out the Mexican immigration / customs entry forms and the passenger freaked out. Of course, being a generic American who’d _never_ want to travel internationally he has no passport. Not just not carrying one on his person, but has never had one issued in his life. Pre-9/11 & pre-TSA that was real common. We notify Cancun we’ve got this problem coming their way. > > On arrival our ground team tells us to identify the passenger before they let anyone else off. Our staffer is accompanied by two armed officials who looked exactly like every cheapo movie’s idea of a corrupt 3rd World customs / border policeman. Bad moustaches, big intimidating hats & badges, too much firepower, etc. > > They escort the passenger off while the rest of the crowd ogles this major international crime figure being taken down. Before northbound boarding began this guy was the very first person aboard, escorted back onto the airplane by the same two goons. I found out later the pax spent the 90 ground minutes locked in a small concrete cell in the terminal. > > We get the guy back to snow country in time to miss the last flight to Des Moines. And of course since the airline is disrupted, by that hour the local hotels are full of other disrupted passengers. Last I heard he was planning on sleeping in the terminal. > > So much for fun in the sun for him. > > How’d he get on our flight? The flight to Des Moines was originally supposed to leave from that gate at about the time we did. But we were late and the Des Moines flight had been moved elsewhere. He never checked the terminal gate info screens, just trusted his paper boarding pass issued many hours before at whichever airport he had started his day at. He also paid zero attention to any of the many PAs during boarding. This was all before fancy phones, text messages, airline apps, and all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/50 "2021-05-13T05:44:07Z")
I got my first paycheck in 1959. The teller asked if I wanted an account, handed me a signature car and said put your name and address on here and sign it. She came back a minute later with a printed card with my name and account number on it, and another business reply envelope in case I wanted to order checks. That was it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/51 "2021-05-13T14:56:18Z")
Having recently opened a checking account at a new bank I can tell you that other than giving them my driver’s license number the procedure was identical to your 1959 procedure. And probably quicker. I was dealing with a website, not a human, but that’s just a matter of communication, not substance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/52 "2021-05-13T14:59:18Z")
I should not be surprised that so many security holes still exist to this day. My just told me about another highly educated employee where she works who opened a phishing email, clicked on a link, and opened the door to a malware parade. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them stop clicking on links in emails. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/53 "2021-05-13T14:59:43Z")
Do hotels and resorts still let you assign restaurant and bar charges to your room by just telling the server your room number? When that was more common, how was it not constantly exploited? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/54 "2021-05-13T15:02:21Z")
When I was very young and traveling with most of the company to trade shows, I was warned against letting everyone know which room I was in, or else they’d charge everyone’s bar tab against my room. But they may have been kidding about doing this. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/55 "2021-05-13T16:37:21Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Do hotels and resorts still let you assign restaurant and bar charges to your room by just telling the server your room number? When that was more common, how was it not constantly exploited? Someone who works in hotels can chime in, but I believe the practice is that they check your name (possibly ID) against the name assigned to your room. So if I am UltraVires staying in Room 220, and ask that my liquor be charged to Room 220, they at minimum ask my name and then pull up on the computer that UltraVires is indeed in Room 220. If I said just charge it to Room 244, then they would see that I wasn’t staying there. ETA: It was exploited. I remember at hotels just signing your name, getting a key and then paying on the way out just like a restaurant. I don’t know if people were more decent back then or what, but that would be a disaster today. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/56 "2021-05-13T16:46:45Z")
It’s been a few years since I put anything on a room at a hotel (except for room service where they’re pretty sure what room you are in), but I don’t recall any double checking just based on room number recently. Long ago they sometimes wrote room numbers on the security card or little folder they put it in, and before that it the room number was embossed on the plastic fob that the old fashioned metal key was attached to. I recall a couple of times where I had to show my key to charge something to my room. Even if a desk clerk doesn’t stupidly write a room number of someone’s key card now I’m sure there are guest stupid enough to do that to remember their room number. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/57 "2021-05-13T16:55:46Z")
Again, this is just a WAG, but I assume they would do it discreetly. Shake your hand, ask your name, where you are from, how long you will be staying at Prestigious Resort, etc. and then discreetly check your name against the room number. Also, depending on the resort, they may have calculated that any money they lose to fraud is offset by giving their guests the convenience of being able to just say “put it on my room.” You certainly couldn’t do it at a Quality Inn. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/58 "2021-05-13T17:04:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > My just told me about another highly educated employee where she works who opened a phishing email, clicked on a link, and opened the door to a malware parade. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them stop clicking on links in emails. We have annual, mandatory training on digital security, including avoiding phishing and the like. Our security group tests this from time to time, by sending out their own (non-malicious) phishing emails to the agency, and then reporting out the results – there’s always about 10-15% of people who fall for it, despite the training. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/59 "2021-05-13T17:15:16Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > We have annual, mandatory training on digital security, including avoiding phishing and the like. Our security group tests this from time to time, by sending out their own (non-malicious) phishing emails to the agency, and then reporting out the results – there’s always about 10-15% of people who fall for it, despite the training. I’ll tell my wife about that. I’m sure they’ll see a higher percentage, as I noted, these people are highly educated. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591/60 "2021-05-13T17:53:04Z")
I charge stuff to hotel rooms many times per month in the US and Latin America. In a variety of brands of mid- to upper-midmarket places. Pretty universally to make a room charge you must write your last name, room number, and signature on a computerized charge slip akin to the credit card charge slips we all recognize. Which name and room number does get checked at least sometimes; once in awhile I goof my number since it’s different every night, and they come back and ask about the discrepancy. For sure, I could write “Smith, room 123”, and an illegible squiggle and walk out of the restaurant before they check the computer. I could also walk out before they even bring me the bill. The “security” against dine-and-dash is pretty lax at most restaurants, whether or not connected to a hotel. FWIW I’ve never had a charge appear on a room bill that wasn’t mine. I did get hit for 3 drinks once when I’d only bought two. But when they checked their records they realized it had been rung up as one, then both, rather than as one and one. So they reversed the mistake. I’ve never seen any restaurant server ask for a room keycard or keycard envelope as a form of ID. I do know that in Las Vegas it’s universal that access to the pool areas requires showing your room key. Whether the valet (read “gate guard”) has a reader they can insert to validate that the key is live seems to vary from property to property. In smaller facilities both Vegas and otherwise instead of a gate guard you’ve got the usual electronic lock where you need a current valid keycard to open the door to the pool deck or gym or business center or … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-security-over-time-imposter-scams-etc/941591.md?page=4)