# Changes in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 6, 2025, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716 "2025-10-06T11:35:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/41 "2025-10-07T19:05:39Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m sure the Catholic church will accept $ from anyone, but can you remain a member if you disavow God and the trinity? If, like you, you were baptized in a Catholic (or any other Christian denomination that is in communion with the Catholic Church)), even if you denounce the Church and its teaching, through the act of baptism they will still consider you a Catholic, and you can’t do anything about it. Yes, pisses me off too. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/42 "2025-10-07T19:06:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > What churches allow non-believers to remain members? Basically, every church allows non-believers to remain members if they don’t bring it up to often, and are willing to go through the motions. There are tons of people who basically never think about theology. They aren’t lying, they just don’t care. You might have to state a belief in God to convert to Judaism? I’m not sure about that. It’s certainly something that pretty much never comes up for people who are raised in the faith. I mean, sure, we pray, “Hear oh Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One”. But no one ever asks you, “do you really believe that stuff?” > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Are you saying kids who were raised in some weird commune are likely to be more messed up as adults than, say, Mormons who leave the church? I’m saying that kids who are raised in some weird commune are unlikely to stay in that commune as adults, unless they really buy into its beliefs. Whereas lots of kids are raised Catholic and never really care about any of that but like the rituals or the family togetherness and stay in the Catholic Church. Basically, i think religiosity, or maybe spirituality, is a fundamental human trait, like enjoying music or dance, that is basically irrational, and very important to the people who have a lot of it, and not very important to those who don’t. People with a high degree of religiosity care what their religion teaches, and tend to either buy into a sect or become ardent atheists. I have a friend who converted from generic Conservative Judaism to Chabad-Lubuvich. His brother converted to some branch of Christianity and became a monk or something, and his sister became a militant atheist. That’s a family with a high degree of religiosity. But a lot of people just don’t care very much. They have low religiosity. All the real religions tolerate those low-religiosity people, and have a place for them. Sometimes an important place doing stuff like organizing other members of the church to aid the sick and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/43 "2025-10-07T19:10:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Isn’t the LDS Church basically the same as Mormons, other than splinter churches that still fall under the category of “Mormon”? Wikipedia specifically mentions them as an example of non-Nicene Christians. Yes, and by the numbers, Mormons are almost all of the extant non-nicene Christians. And all the other groups are generally rejected in their claim to be Christian by mainstream Christians, too. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/44 "2025-10-07T19:35:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And all the other groups are generally rejected in their claim to be Christian by mainstream Christians, too. I guess having Christians tell you that you’re not a real Christian is better than Christians burning you at the stake, breaking you on the wheel, or any of the other things Christians used to do to heretics. From the outside looking in, it seems _very_ simple. If the most important prophet in your religion is Jesus, you’re a Christian. Thinking that Jesus is divine is optional; thinking that Jesus is the same divine entity as God is also optional. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/45 "2025-10-07T19:45:26Z")
Thanks for the explanation, **puzzlegal**. I’ll keep my personal attitude towards religion out of this interesting thread. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2025, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/46 "2025-10-07T23:53:01Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’ll keep my personal attitude towards religion out of this interesting thread. As the OP, I deliberately put this in MPSIMS to avoid “testifying” either for or against religion, Mormonism or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in specific. I’m not trying to call you out personally, but I think that we have a really good opportunity for an interesting discussion because of the mix of current and former members as well as other people. I am interested in what current members think (I could ask my mother, but that would give her false hope that I still have interest in returning to the Church) and can provide background to the roots of Mormonism as well as what we believed back in the days. I would rather not get dragged down into debates or rants. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/47 "2025-10-08T00:05:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I can’t help but think the _lack_ of certain vices, such as alcohol and drugs, also helps keep the believers on a productive path. I’m sure there are Mormons who fall off the straight and narrow but the religion/culture steering them away from those two helps. I see a lot of people pour resources into those vices that could have gone to any number of other things. Ha, wow, I’m so deep in that I actually didn’t think about this. Because of course you’re right. But it didn’t really occur to me because of course good members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints don’t drink or smoke or do drugs! Thanks @Broomstick. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Eh, all mainstream Christians have followed the nicene creed for more than 1500 years, having driven the non-nicene heretics out of the fold. I don’t think my sister-in-law’s evangelical church follows the Nicene creed. I mean, they don’t _not_ follow it exactly – if you said most of the lines to them they’d say, “sure, I more or less agree with that” – but I think there’s some stuff they actually don’t agree with, like “one holy catholic and apostolic church.” But I’m not absolutely sure – I’ll ask her next time I see her. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And Mormon theology is weird even compared to other non-nicene groups. Haha, no argument there. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I have literally never heard anyone say this. It’s pretty common for Christians to say, " i don’t understand it" or even, “it’s a mystery”. But I’ve never heard a mainstream Christian describe Jesus and the father as separate people. I agree that it’s not something most Christians spend a lot of time thinking about. IDK, do you spend a lot of time (as I did, in that period of my life) asking random not-particularly-interested-in-theology Christians about it and then trying to pin them down as to what they think the “mystery” part means? It’s true that actual pastors and people who spend time thinking about this stuff _didn’t_ say that they thought they were separate people (I asked them too). > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Yeah - I can almost imagine someone making the calculated decision that the history is nonsense, but if I belong to this club, it will help me socially and professionally. Almost like any group like Rotarians…. In my mind, today’s LDS almost seems like some combination of Tony Robbins and the Kiwanis club. A program of lifestyle/economic/financial habits that will make you successful. Oh yeah - and by the way - we’ll give lip service to this nonsensical bit of make believe. Huh. Not…. really? It’s not lip service. It’s stuff that people truly and fervently believe, and it permeates everything they do, and people like me who don’t necessarily truly believe it all can have a tough time when every week you’re hearing about how all of this is definitely true and isn’t it great. (I think I’ve now made my peace with it, but it took a while.) And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also asks a lot of its members. I mean, there’s ten percent tithing and having a calling (a church job) and having someone/some people you minister to, and quite a few meetings. And everyone has a calling, not just the people who want to (as in many other churches). Honestly, I don’t think it would really work if most people didn’t truly believe. That being said, I’ve known a few people who come regularly even though they don’t believe, often (but not always) to support a family member. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/48 "2025-10-08T03:59:11Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I have literally never heard anyone say this. It’s pretty common for Christians to say, " i don’t understand it" or even, “it’s a mystery”. But I’ve never heard a mainstream Christian describe Jesus and the father as separate people. I agree that it’s not something most Christians spend a lot of time thinking about. > > IDK, do you spend a lot of time (as I did, in that period of my life) asking random not-particularly-interested-in-theology Christians about it and then trying to pin them down as to what they think the “mystery” part means? I am interested in religion, and have asked a lot of people about their religion. No, i don’t try to “pin down” anyone. I’m curious, not attempting to convert anyone. But I’d suggest that if you were doing that, there would be a strong bias among many people who just don’t think about it much to say what they hope will satisfy you, so you’ll go away. I think the true answer for most of those people was, “I’m not sure and don’t really care”. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/49 "2025-10-08T04:06:40Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > Honestly, I don’t think it would really work if most people didn’t truly believe. I think so. It’s too much of a commitment. We went through the time commitments in the other thread, and it’s so much more than simply casually attending. An analogy is the difference between two sports my son participates in. I’ll hide it because it’s not directly related to the topic and only an analogy. > **Summary** > > In one, we travel two hours (each way) every Sunday and participate in a number of several-day races (mostly within a few hours, but also several in other locations in Japan and we’ve gone abroad for international competitions. It requires a lot of commitment from parents, and I have been on the race committee / race management for a dozen races. I have to research all the necessary equiment and such. It requires a huge time, emotional and mental commitment, even as a parent. > > In the other one, one of the parents is the volunteer coach and does everything. The coach even drops my son off after practice and the kids travel together for matches with parents taking turns or the kids taking the train. While I’m thrilled he’s doing well and enjoying the experience, it just doesn’t require much of a commitment from me as a parent. I found a survey of Mormons by Pew Research released in 2012. Keep in mind this is 13 years ago and so there may be some changes. > [@](#): > > A large majority of Mormons say religion is very important in their lives, more than four-in-five pray at least once a day and three-quarters attend religious services weekly or more. Almost all Mormons (98%) accept the traditional Christian teaching that Jesus rose from the dead. Mormons are also nearly unanimous in accepting other teachings of their church that are different from the beliefs of other Christian traditions. For example, 94% of Mormons believe that the president of the LDS Church is a prophet and 91% believe that the Book of Mormon was written by ancient prophets and then translated by Joseph Smith. However, more than one-in-five Mormons (22%) say they find some of the church’s teachings hard to accept, and nearly one-in-ten (8%) say they seldom or never attend religious services. > More than four out of five Mormons (82%) say religion is very important to them, compared with 56% of the general public. Mormons closely resemble black Protestants (86% of whom say religion is very important to them) and white evangelicals (83% very important) on this question. Mormons are significantly more likely than Catholics (56%) and white mainline Protestants (45%) to say religion is very important in their lives. > Upwards of three-quarters of Mormons (77%) say they attend religious services at least once a week, and in response to a separate question two-thirds (67%) say they are “very active” in the LDS Church. Mormon rates of worship attendance are well above the national average, with 39% of the general public saying they attend religious services at least weekly. Mormons’ church attendance exceeds that reported by white evangelical Protestants, among whom nearly two-thirds (64%) say they attend church at least once a week. > For example, Mormons are nearly unanimous in the view that God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate, physical beings, with 94% expressing this view. Identically large majorities of Mormons affirm that the president of the LDS Church is a prophet of God (94%) and that families can be bound together eternally in temple ceremonies (95%). Mormons are also united in the belief that the Book of Mormon was written by ancient prophets and translated by Joseph Smith (91%); by comparison, less than one-in-ten say that the Book of Mormon was written by Joseph Smith himself (8%). Note that this servey was only for people who considered themselves Mormon, so people like me would not likely to have been included. In my experience the vast majority really do deeply believe, and the number of “cultural Mormons” are much less. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/50 "2025-10-08T05:18:17Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think the true answer for most of those people was, “I’m not sure and don’t really care”. I can’t speak for @raspberry_hunter , but one of the things that is attractive for a lot of Mormons is that the Mormon religion claims to have answers for everything. Or at least it used it. It started back with Joseph Smith and his revelations. One commentary at the time noted that the Book of Mormon answered all the burning questions of the time. JS had a large number of revelations and that everything would be revealed. He taught that the truth was known before but lost due to corruption. I was just talking to my siblings about Mormonism (they are also out) and we were agreeing about how much emphasis the Church placed on facts and knowledge. It’s a completely different way of thinking and I can see someone being surprised that other religions are not as detailed. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And he told me that when a priest (?? I’m not clear on the names of Mormon religious authorities ??) chastised him for being openly gay, he replied that he had prayed, and the Holy Ghost assured him that he was okay. And so the priest dropped the topic, and my friend was never formally removed from the official tally of Mormons. It would have been his bishop, the lay leader of the ward (congregation). Like a lot of other organizations, you get leadership roulette where it depends on the leader. Being gay or even openly gay isn’t grounds for excommunication. However, having sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is serious and would be grounds for being sanctioned. It could have been a case of don’t ask if you are having sex or perhaps either he was celibate or he wasn’t candid with the leader. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/51 "2025-10-08T12:02:19Z")
He may have been sanctioned. He was not a practicing Mormon when i met him, either. But he said he wasn’t excommunicated. And i believe that he did pray about his sexuality, did hear an answer that he was okay, and that the bishop gave that some weight. Also, he may have been celebate at the time, he didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/52 "2025-10-08T12:21:27Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I found a survey of Mormons by Pew Research released in 2012. That is really interesting to this nonbeliever. I think I had sorta thought that the believers in all the different religions pretty much just picked whichever “story” and community out of convenience, family/friends, whatever. I hadn’t really thought that some mainstream religious communities trended “more zealous” than others. Unless we are talking about snake handlers or speaking in tongues evangelicals - which IMO might get close to the religion vs cult border. Or, on the other hand, seekers of christianity-lite, who happily belnd with woo. It is hard to say this without being insulting, but the Mormon story seems especially hard to believe, compared to other mainstream religions. I don’t know a lot of Mormons, but I know a lot of christians who pretty much think most of the supernatural stuff in their religions is hooey. Somehow a vague christianity strikes me as - um - less assertive than believing in the Joseph Smith story. That Mormon appeals to the “highly religious” in my mind nudges Mormon at least slightly cultward. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/53 "2025-10-08T12:32:13Z")
There are other sanctions for sins related to sex that are short of excommunication. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > It is hard to say this without being insulting, but the Mormon story seems especially hard to believe, compared to other mainstream religions. I donno. The whole idea of a god favoring one particular group of sheep herders doesn’t seem logical to me but again, that’s not the focus of this thread. Perhaps a tread in GD would be more appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/54 "2025-10-08T12:39:09Z")
Yeah - sorry. In my mind, the vagueness allowed by the passage of millennia kinda smooths out some of the rough edges - blurring th eline from belief to custom. But I’ll keep any further such thoughts from this thread. It is just that this informative thread has spurred such thoughts in my fevered heathen brain. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/55 "2025-10-08T12:43:26Z")
I don’t think the Mormon story is any weirder than the weird details of most other religions I’ve studied. The only thing that makes it less believable, imho, is that we have pretty good contemporary evidence that Joseph Smith was a con man, and used similar cons in secular settings before he discovered religion. 🤷‍♀️ I mean, have you read Revelations? Job? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/56 "2025-10-08T12:56:14Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The only thing that makes it less believable, imho, is that we have pretty good contemporary evidence that Joseph Smith was a con man, and used similar cons in secular settings before he discovered religion. Again, if you are interested in have the active members participate in answering your questions, keeping the focus on the beliefs may be better. , ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/57 "2025-10-08T14:51:09Z")
I think for outsiders some of the stories of many religions would seem farfetched. From my previous Southern Baptist life. if you asked me what Christianity meant, I would give things such as beliefs about God, Jesus, the Bible, Salvation by Grace and so forth. There would be significant differences with that and what I believed as a Mormon. If I needed to accept Mormons as “part of the club” that would basically negate everything that was important to me. And in my previous Mormon life, I would say that the other religions were good and would probably result in going to the 2nd kingdom (Mormons should know what I mean) (except for maybe me, since I’m an apostate). But, to make it to the highest level would require things like a Mormon baptism, going through the Mormon temple, etc. Unless things have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/58 "2025-10-08T14:57:55Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > If I needed to accept Mormons as “part of the club” that would basically negate everything that was important to me. Well, sure, they’re _heretical_ Christians (to Nicene Christians, obviously Nicene Christians are the heretics to non-Nicene Christians). If you told a hardliner Shia that they had to accept a Sunni as “part of the club”, they may very well tell you that this would ‘basically negate everything that was important to them’ about Islam. And vice versa. It doesn’t mean that an outsider needs to agree with either of them that the other guy isn’t really Muslim. > [@Author\_Balk](#): > > And in my previous Mormon life, I would say that the other religions were good and would probably result in going to the 2nd kingdom (Mormons should know what I mean) (except for maybe me, since I’m an apostate). But, to make it to the highest level would require things like a Mormon baptism, going through the Mormon temple, etc. And an Anabaptist would tell you that a Catholic’s baptism doesn’t count because only an adult consciously choosing to be baptized can undertake the solemn ritual, while a Catholic would tell you that the Anabaptist’s baptism is invalid. But neither of them gets to tell the outside world that they can’t view the other as a real Christian. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/59 "2025-10-08T15:54:29Z")
I believe that a Catholic would accept an Anabaptist’s baptism. The Catholic Church wouldn’t consider that person to be in communion with the Catholic Church, but would likely be considered validly baptized. From [www.catholic.com](http://www.catholic.com): > Those who have been validly baptized outside the Church become Catholics by making a profession of the Catholic faith and being formally received into the Church. This is normally followed immediately by confirmation and the Eucharist. I don’t know much about Anabaptist belief, but i believe they would consider a Catholic to be a Christian who isn’t doing it right, rather than a non-Christian. (Much as a Mormon might view a Catholic.) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2025, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716/60 "2025-10-08T16:02:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I believe that a Catholic would accept an Anabaptist’s baptism. I don’t know about today, but traditionally they used to torture them to death, put them in cages, lifted them up the Cathedral and let them rot. The cages are still hanging there for everyone to see. > **[Münster rebellion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_rebellion)** > > The Münster rebellion (German: Täuferreich von Münster, "Anabaptist dominion of Münster") was an attempt by radical Anabaptists to establish a communal sectarian government in the German city of Münster – then under the large Prince-Bishopric of Münster in the Holy Roman Empire. > The city was under Anabaptist rule from February 1534, when the city hall was seized and Bernhard Knipperdolling installed as mayor, until its fall in June 1535. It was Melchior Hoffman, who initiated adult baptism in ... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changes-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/1023716.md?page=4)