# Changing names, removing statues while avoiding 1984-ism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444 "2020-06-23T16:51:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/204 "2020-07-09T02:38:49Z")
I’m not saying crack down on BLM. I’m saying enforce the law and stop allowing violent mobs to dictate policy. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/205 "2020-07-09T02:42:55Z")
Ok, Octopus, so you think the Boston colonists who (violently) threw tea into the Harbor were wrong to try to change the policies oppressing them? As I remember, they tried everything else first. Peaceful petition, peaceful assembly. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/206 "2020-07-09T02:48:29Z")
Is a monarchy the same as a democracy? Can the people in these states and cities vote to change things? Does acting like Neville Chamberlain ever work? Living in a democracy doesn’t mean you necessarily get your way. It means you can participate in self government. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/207 "2020-07-09T03:48:31Z")
Is the United States now a democracy? 🤔 I’ve been told for years that it’s some form of Constitutional Republic or something. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/208 "2020-07-09T13:17:05Z")
Violent mobs dictating policy would be if say a group of armed individuals stormed a state capitol in order to demand that they can get a haircut in the middle of a global pandemic. A group of people who damage some metal or stone sitting out in a public area are not dictating anything at all. I agree entirely that those who vandalize public property should be held accountable, and be required to pay a fine for their civil disobedience. What does “enforcement” mean to you? Do you feel that anyone who participates in the damage or defacement of a statue that celebrates racism should get 10 years in prison? What punishment do _you_ feel is appropriate? You said “Just because the violent mob has some peaceful folk”, which implies that you believe that the groups are made up of mostly violent people. Is this actually something that you erroneously believe, or are you engaging in collective punishment of blaming the whole group for the actions of a few? As far as political correctness, all that is is not being an asshole. People who complain about “PC” are people that don’t want to be called out on being assholes. The only thing that is insidious about “PC” is how assholes have used it as an excuse to be an asshole, meeting any complaint as to their borish behavior with, “Excuse me for not being PC.” elevating their jerkishness into a noble trait in their own eyes. And what destruction of history and language are you going on about? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/209 "2020-07-09T13:22:49Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Ok, Octopus, so you think the Boston colonists who (violently) threw tea into the Harbor were wrong to try to change the policies oppressing them? The Boston Tea Party seems more like the latter-millennium Tea Party than BLM. They were protesting that they believed the wrong sort of people - in this case, a monopoly rather than a class or ethnicity - received favors from the government. The actual Tea Party wasn’t protesting the violent suppression of dissent. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/210 "2020-07-10T19:15:11Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Is the United States now a democracy? 🤔 I’ve been told for years that it’s some form of Constitutional Republic or something. Don’t let “them” fool you. We live in an oligarchy. A government of the powerful, by the powerful and for the powerful. They just throw us enough crumbs to keep us from revolting. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/211 "2020-07-30T01:47:35Z")
Can anyone name a statue that should not be torn down? A city/street/team that shouldn’t be renamed? At some point you’ve got to realise that if the US is a rotten to the core as you say, there is no reformation possible, it’s like re-forming that Nazis (without Jew-hatred) or the Communist Party Soviet Union (but with less gulags and famine). And, hence, only wholescale revolution is the answer. And that means civil war, not chanting and looting the Bodega. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/212 "2020-07-30T01:58:22Z")
I disagree. The Revolution is happening… ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/213 "2020-07-30T02:49:54Z")
Ok, but don’t complain when it doesn’t turn out to be roses, unicorns, and rainbows. You won’t like the result. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/214 "2020-07-30T02:51:38Z")
It’s already better than it was! ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/215 "2020-07-30T04:26:21Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Can anyone name a statue that should not be torn down? > A city/street/team that shouldn’t be renamed? Harriet Tubman’s. (She’s got several.) Springwater. (There’s a batch of them.) Water Street. (There’s a batch of them too.) New York Mets. I could go on. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/216 "2020-07-31T15:46:41Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Can anyone name a statue that should not be torn down? The Rocky statue in Philly? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/217 "2020-07-31T17:49:29Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > New York Mets. Listen if renaming the team is what it takes to get the Wilpons to sell, I’m all in. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/218 "2020-08-02T01:05:46Z")
Soon there’ll be a petition to re-name them in indigenous languages. But, you knew which streets I meant. I don’t think there are many “re-name 4th street” petitions. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/219 "2020-08-02T01:06:56Z")
Somebody will find a reason to do it because she “helped religous people or participated in liberating slaves but not enough in ending slavery” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/220 "2020-08-02T01:08:14Z")
A white guy beating up African-Americans a being the hero? He beat an “uppity black” and an up-an-coming-rags-to-riches in the second. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/221 "2020-08-02T01:53:03Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I don’t think there are many “re-name 4th street” petitions. That was my point. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/222 "2020-08-02T13:59:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > A white guy beating up African-Americans a being the hero? He beat an “uppity black” and an up-an-coming-rags-to-riches in the second. Wow, it’s there a big enough rolleyes emoji on this site? (Is there a rolleyes emoji at all? The one called “roll eyes” looks more scared than dismissive. 🙄 ) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444/223 "2020-08-02T15:12:28Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Wow, it’s there a big enough rolleyes emoji on this site? (Is there a rolleyes emoji at all? The one called “roll eyes” looks more scared than dismissive. 🙄 I’m fairly certain that is sarcasm. Also, I don’t know what “up-an-coming-rags-to-riches in the second” means, since he fought the same guy in Rocky II that he fought in Rocky. Also, Rocky defeated communism all by himself and we all changed, so that deserves a statue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-names-removing-statues-while-avoiding-1984-ism/912444.md?page=12)