# Changing Views \[due to coronavirus\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 29, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617 "2020-03-29T20:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/41 "2020-04-06T17:48:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The argument that many have put forth is that this lengthy means-testing process would be an unhelpful delay to Americans who need money urgently. It would be easier to just disburse the checks now and then raise taxes on the wealthy later. Yes, this. Send every household $1200/adult, $500/child and if you want means testing (and sure, that seems reasonable - lord knows I don’t need the money at this point), do it on the 2020 1040 form (which has the advantage of listing someone’s actual income from this year). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/42 "2020-04-06T18:04:14Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Are you a fiscal conservative who is now okay with deficit spending? I’m not aware of anyone who believes there should never be deficit spending. The standard fiscal conservative position from previous generations would have been that in good times, when the economy is growing and nothing majorly terrible is happening, spending should be cut and a surplus should be run, so that the deficit goes down. Then when a crisis does happen, the federal government can spend as necessary without destroying the country’s financial future. During this century both parties have completely ignored that idea. Presently, the government has banned millions of small businesses from operating and put tens of millions of people out of work. (Right now we’re at almost exactly 10 million newly unemployed, but that number will grow.) If the government is going to do that, self-evidently the government needs to provide some help, though that necessarily means expanding the deficit from enormous to double-plus-gargantuan with no end in sight. Eventually the national debt will wreck the country and force Americans to live with a lower standard of living. The present crisis has surely advanced that day of reckoning several years closer, though it’s impossible to know exactly when it will happen. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/43 "2020-04-07T21:13:31Z")
From libertarian, closer to anarchist. Most everything I’ve seen come out of federal, state, and local governments has been laughable, counterproductive, or downright destructive. The first federal bailout law (with more promised) just cost each American taxpayer $15,000. For most, that’s an entire year’s mortgage payments. Just what are people getting back for that chunk of change? In the macro, they’re just detonating the debt bomb that much quicker. And that’s a force so powerful it’ll make this virus drama laughable in comparison, completely ignoring the fact that every living American’s share of the federal government’s unfunded liability debt bill already tops $400,000. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/44 "2020-04-08T18:55:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Here’s a point of view more from the right: But have you changed _your_ views? Sounds like no, but perhaps you could answer the OPs questions. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/45 "2020-04-08T20:37:28Z")
My personal beliefs haven’t changed much so far, but I am still waiting to see how this shakes out in the end. I’m open to re-evaluating things once we can look back and see how everything worked out. But I already thought that Trump was a buffoon, that governments were not capable, that international institutions tend to fail when stressed, etc. So far, most of what has happened has just confirmed what I always thought. Saying that, I’m also aware that confirmation bias and selection bias could be coloring my thinking, and I try to be aware of that as well. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/46 "2020-04-08T22:30:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My personal beliefs haven’t changed much so far, but I am still waiting to see how this shakes out in the end. I’m open to re-evaluating things once we can look back and see how everything worked out. But I already thought that Trump was a buffoon, that governments were not capable, that international institutions tend to fail when stressed, etc. > > So far, most of what has happened has just confirmed what I always thought. Saying that, I’m also aware that confirmation bias and selection bias could be coloring my thinking, and I try to be aware of that as well. That’s a fair answer, thank you for the followup. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/47 "2020-04-09T02:35:04Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Presently, the government has banned millions of small businesses from operating and put tens of millions of people out of work. Which government did that? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/48 "2020-04-09T05:30:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I didn’t mean fighting with China. I meant internal fighting over funds, taxes, debt relief, etc. There will be lawsuits, people charged for breach of contract because they didn’t deliver goods on time, companies bankrupted now looking for restitution, etc. The tax bill is going to be enormous if we actually try to pay off all the money spent during this. That sort of thing. Fingers will be pointed, partisans of all types will accuse each other of failure. > > In North America that will probably just result in more shouting. In less stable areas of the world? I’m not sure. Thanks for clarifying. Yep, it’s a shit show. Renters going on rent strike (and many with no income and no savings), owners who are leveraged and then default to the banks, banks stuck with mass unperforming loans, Uncle Sugar needing to bail out the banks yet again to ensure the financial system does not collapse and take civilization with it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/49 "2020-04-09T12:35:34Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You don’t? > > ## ICU beds per 100,000 people > > US: 20-31.7 > Canada: 13.5 > UK: 3.5-7.9 > China: 2.8-4.6 > > [Cite.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/) > > Countries with nationalized health care have to ration. That means facilities are run near maximum capacity. Bed utilization in Canada and the UK runs 95-100% in normal times, with waiting lists. U.S. bed utilization typically runs 80% or lower, with no waiting lists. Before this pandemic, this was seen as being a feature of nationalized health care - a sign of efficiency. Now? Not so much. > > ## MRI machines per 100,000 population > > U.S. 38.1 > Canada: 8.9 > UK: 6.1 > > Canada currently has a 1-year waiting list for MRIs. If this crisis required MRI machines, we’d be screwed and you’d be much, much better off. > > One of the reasons health care is more expensive in the U.S is because private hospitals means redundancies, which translates into spare capacity in a crisis. The U.S. has more slack in its medical system than almost all the other health systems in the world. Actually a lot of these numbers are explained in that countries with UHC are much better at early diagnosis and treatment, the US is better at ICU care and have more ICU facilities because they are worse at early diagnosis and treatment. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617/50 "2020-04-09T17:34:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Actually a lot of these numbers are explained in that countries with UHC are much better at early diagnosis and treatment, the US is better at ICU care and have more ICU facilities because they are worse at early diagnosis and treatment. Also ICU is incredibly profitable so why not do more of it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-views-due-to-coronavirus/850617.md?page=2)