# Changing your mind the night after sex = rape (Does this ever happen?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082 "2008-11-10T18:54:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/41 "2008-11-11T14:39:00Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > From the Purdue study linked to in phouka’s post: > > "agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. > > for a declaration of false charge to be made, the complainant must admit that no rape had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the rape charge is false. The police department will not declare a rape charge as false when the complainant, for whatever reason, fails to pursue the charge or cooperate on the case, regardless how much doubt the police may have regarding the validity of the charge > > it should be noted that this department does not confuse reported rape attempts with completed rapes. Thus, the rape complainants referred to in this paper are for completed forcible rapes only. > > In short, these cases are declared false only because the complainant admitted they are false > > the policy of this police agency is to apply a statute regarding the false reporting of a felony. After the recant, the complainant is informed that she will be charged with filing a false complaint, punishable by a substantial fine and a jail sentence. In no case, has an effort been made on the part of the complainant to retract the recantation." > > I can’t speak to its accuracy, but the methods they claim are compelling I read it last night, or at least that part. I don’t know if the survey is an outlier, or if it was tilted in a particular way, but it runs against everything I have seen on the subject before. And that includes comments from prosecutors in the field, who state they can tell a false accusation almost immediately, and that it is not more common than in other serious felonies. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/42 "2008-11-11T14:41:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And everything I’ve ever seen says that rape and child molestation have a very HIGH level of false accusations. And that “40 %” is probably the minimum, not the maximum; the usual number I’ve heard for both is in the 60% range. As for a rape claim being false, I recall that the FBI got those numbers when using DNA tests, demonstrating that those men didn’t have sex with the accuser at all. The fact you will talk about rape and child molestation at the same time in this way shows you really don’t understand a lot about this field. And I do not believe for one moment that the “60%” number (which I have never heard) comes from DNA tests showing what you claim it shows. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/43 "2008-11-11T14:50:59Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I think **Lamia** and **phouka** , at least, have said they both agree with this (as do many others posting in this thread). Certainly lip service has been paid to it. What I object to in **Lamia’s** posts is the sense of turnabout is fair play. She agrees false accusations are wrong but then suggests since men have had at women for courting getting raped (because they wear a mini skirt or something) that it is somehow ok for her to say men courted a false rape accusation. I would say it is even more reprehensible coming from someone who finds victim blame of rape victims to be odious to turn around and do the same back at men who are falsely accused. She _knows_ what a lousy thing it is to blame a rape victim. To do the same back at men is not only wrong but also makes her a hypocrite. Victim blame is crap whichever way you slice it and I think the proper position is to denounce it unambiguously no matter who the victim is. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/44 "2008-11-11T15:14:02Z")
> [@villa](#): > > The fact you will talk about rape and child molestation at the same time in this way shows you really don’t understand a lot about this field. The field of what ? False accusations ? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/45 "2008-11-11T15:47:47Z")
> [@villa](#): > > And I do not believe for one moment that the “60%” number (which I have never heard) comes from DNA tests showing what you claim it shows. FWIW I found the following…will see if I can find more (note I am just throwing data points out…for this post do not take it as an indication of my views one way or another): > [@](#): > > Kanin’s findings are hardly unique. In 1985 the Air Force conducted a study of 556 rape accusations. Over one quarter of the accusers admitted, either just before they took a lie detector test of after they had failed it, that no rape occurred. A further investigation by independent reviewers found that 60 percent of the original rape allegations were false. > > The most common reasons the women gave for falsely accusing rape were “spite or revenge,” and to compensate for feelings of guilt or shame (“Forensic Science Digest,” vol. 11. no. 4, December 1985). > > \ > > According to a 1996 Department of Justice Report, of the roughly 10,000 sexual assault cases analyzed with DNA evidence over the previous seven years, 2,000 excluded the primary suspect, and another 2,000 were inconclusive. The report notes that these figures mirror an informal National Institute of Justice survey of private laboratories, and suggests that there exists “some strong, underlying systemic problems that generate erroneous accusations and convictions.” > > That false allegations are a major problem has been confirmed by several prominent prosecutors, including Linda Fairstein, who heads the New York County District Attorney’s Sex Crimes Unit. Fairstein, the author of “Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape,” says, “there are about 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen.” > > Craig Silverman, a former Colorado prosecutor known for his zealous prosecution of rapists during his 16-year career, says that false rape accusations occur with “scary frequency.” As a regular commentator on the Bryant trial for Denver’s ABC affiliate, Silverman noted that “any honest veteran sex assault investigator will tell you that rape is one of the most falsely reported crimes.” According to Silverman, a Denver sex-assault unit commander estimates that nearly half of all reported rape claims are false. > > SOURCE: [http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075](http://www.americandaily.com/article/5075) ETA: I will note that they cite the most common reason for a false rape accusation is spite or revenge which debunks the notion of guys making a stupid mistake picking a one-night stand. ETA2: Here is the study listed above (I think): [http://www.sexcriminals.com/library/doc-1002-1.pdf](http://www.sexcriminals.com/library/doc-1002-1.pdf) (PDF) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/46 "2008-11-11T15:56:54Z")
That’s interesting, **Whack-a-Mole** , not least because Linda Farstein is also on record (in that book quoted) as saying that fake accusations are almost always immediately noticeable to the investigating officers. Not that that in any way justifies them, but it does clearly limit the harm caused by them if the police immediately recognize them as fake. I think a lot of this comes down to differences in definition. We’d probably all agree that it is significantly worse when a person is charged with a rape that they did not commit than it is when a person merely complains to the police that they were raped, the police determine they weren’t, and nothing further happens. Neither is obviously a good situation, but the harm in the former is significantly greater. Just a week ago, in fact, I got caught up in a false allegation situation (not of rape, of assault) when a neighbor’s daughter, whom I had never met, turned up at my house in tears and called 911, alleging she has been attacked by her father, which turned out to be fabricated from whole cloth. If those type of situations, where the police simply recognize that the story has no validity, are included in the number, I would imagine we would be talking about higher figures than the ones I have always seen. But I don’t know what the numbers for accusations of other serious crimes are, so I cannot compare. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/47 "2008-11-11T15:57:42Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > To use an analogy I hate but that always gets trotted out when rape is the subject, there’s a pretty big difference between having $100 bill and waving it around while walking alone through the streets of a “bad” neighborhood. I was responding to > [@](#): > > If a man is worried that a woman will change her mind and “cry rape” the next morning then he shouldn’t have sex with her in the first place. It’s not that difficult to do. Which is nothing like your analogy. What you said was simply daft, if you didn’t mean it fair enough. > [@](#): > > Once an innocent but foolish person has fallen victim to a crime then it’s too late to warn them about what might happen. It’s already happened and rubbing their noses in their mistakes is rarely helpful. I agree it is unhelpful to say that to them personally, though I see little problem in random people on message boards commenting that a person is a fool, even if they are a victim also. > [@](#): > > But if there’s nothing wrong with suggesting to a woman that it’s unwise to leave her drink unattended, drink to excess while among people she doesn’t trust, allow a strange man to carry her groceries in or give her a ride home, walk alone at night, or do any of the other things women are advised not to do in order to reduce their risk of being raped, then I don’t see what’s so terrible about suggesting to men that they can reduce their risk of being _accused_ of rape by being observant, careful, and using good judgment. What does being “observant, careful, and using good judgment” actually mean though? Not sleeping with people you hardly know? If so, you should provide evidence. Showing that a majority of false rape claims are from women the victim hardly knew would help, or at least a significant number. If men can avoid these supposedly crazy people (I see no reason to believe they are crazy, just vindictive), could you provide some clues for the more clueless among us, so that we may avoid these crazy people who are more likely to accuse us of rape? > [@](#): > > I recently saw a poster in another thread offer the advice “don’t stick your dick in the crazy”. Being accused of rape is just one of many bad things that could happen to a man who has sex with a crazy or otherwise untrustworthy woman. Maybe she lied about being on the Pill. Maybe she lied about not having any STDs. Maybe she lied about not having a violently jealous boyfriend, or not planning to stab you to death while you slept. There’s plenty of psychos out there in the world, but it’s usually both possible and advisable to avoid having sex with them. Again, you have provided no evidence that a majority or even significant number of false rape charges are made by crazy people. Given that there are just aren’t that many crazy people in the world, this is a claim that requires some evidence. I still don’t see how you aren’t just saying “men who want to avoid being accused of rape shouldn’t have sex” which is stupid on numerous levels, and false since you can be accused of rape without ever having sex with someone. > [@](#): > > But maybe someone else has a better suggestion for how to protect innocent men. If so, let’s hear it. What is the best, practical way to help men avoid being falsely accused of rape by women with whom they have had consensual sex? As others have mentioned, treating false accusers of rape/pedophilia etc extremely harshly would help, as would treating such claims as dubious unless evidence is offered. My impression is many feminists have pushed for, and created, a situation where an accuser of rape is always given the benefit of the doubt, despite the evidence showing that they’re full of shit possibly more often than not. Note that this does not mean that accusers should automatically be considers to be lying either, merely that judgment should be withheld until evidence is supplied. This is more of a societal problem however, rather difficult to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/48 "2008-11-11T16:16:23Z")
> [@villa](#): > > That’s interesting, **Whack-a-Mole** , not least because Linda Farstein is also on record (in that book quoted) as saying that fake accusations are almost always immediately noticeable to the investigating officers. Not that that in any way justifies them, but it does clearly limit the harm caused by them if the police immediately recognize them as fake. Re-read the details of the Purdue study linked above: > [@](#): > > agency policy forbids police officers to use their discretion in deciding whether to officially acknowledge a rape complaint, regardless how suspect that complaint may be. So, while the accused may not end up going to prison he is damned sure to get involved in a serious investigation and at the least needs to hire an attorney. Such an investigation can have all sorts of ill-effects on the person even if he is 100% innocent. You cannot hand-wave away the seriousness of the false accusation on the hopes that someone will spot it and nothing will happen as that does not seem to be the case. I should note in reading around that the flip-side used to be the case. Police departments had been found to not be zealously investigating reported sex crimes because they felt on their own that there was nothing there. They got in trouble for that and now do as mentioned above (it would seem). ([cite](http://www.corpus-delicti.com/fs_bookstore/rih/rih_preface.html)) That of course is bad too. Seems difficult to strike a happy medium that minimizes the impact of false allegations while ensuring that legitimate complaints get duly investigated. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/49 "2008-11-11T16:44:27Z")
What I was trying to do was to close the gap between the different numbers. In particular I was surprised to see Farstein quoted there, because having read her book, she comes across very differently. While police may not ignore accusations they think are false, she reports that they would see situations they immediately knew were false - often where a younger girl had been caught with her boyfriend, and told her parents she was raped. When the police questioned her, they determined immediately it was false, and the allegation would be withdrawn. That is the situation I referred to as “less damaging” - no charges filed, no arrest, no lawyer hired etc. It is still wrong, but it is less harmful. In fact, that the police cannot ignore these, as they presumably did in the past, will raise the number of false allegations from previously - whereas if the police did not record these at all, there would be lower reported allegations and lower reported false allegations, with a greater percentage in the “non-false” column. Now, if these type of situations are included in the false allegations total, I can see how the number would be higher than the other reportings I have seen which place it as no higher or lower than other major felonies. All false allegations are bad, and have negative consequences both to individuals and to society at large. But some are much worse than others. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/50 "2008-11-11T17:11:10Z")
To paraphrase Dave Attell I think of many men parse their early warning system indicators with the following logic - “Well…she may be insane, but those titties ain’t insane.” That’s just the way testosterone makes us roll. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/51 "2008-11-11T18:05:06Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Now, if these type of situations are included in the false allegations total, I can see how the number would be higher than the other reportings I have seen which place it as no higher or lower than other major felonies. Would you care to cite some of these? It would seem to me that the motivation to make a false rape accusation would be different than to make a false robbery accusation, I would expect the rate to be different as well. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/52 "2008-11-11T18:12:56Z")
I’d be more comfortable with the process if the accused’s name were protected as much as the accuser’s. So if it was a false accusation, the accused’s reputation is untarnished. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/53 "2008-11-11T18:27:44Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Would you care to cite some of these? > > It would seem to me that the motivation to make a false rape accusation would be different than to make a false robbery accusation, I would expect the rate to be different as well. I can do when I get home. And you are right, the motivation is different. In many ways, an allegation of rape is harder to prove (though in some ways harder to disprove as well). The one that springs to mind is Susan Brownmiller’s study. She is certainly controversial, and I have seen her work criticized, though not effectively rebutted. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/54 "2008-11-11T19:07:07Z")
> [@villa](#): > > The one that springs to mind is Susan Brownmiller’s study. She is certainly controversial, and I have seen her work criticized, though not effectively rebutted. Well, for here I would say Brownmiller’s comment, “Rape is a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” makes her conclusions immediately suspect. It is a rather sweeping statement and certainly news to me for her to suggest that I (as a male and thus included in “all men”) have been consciously intimidating women with a threat of rape. Indeed I could trot every woman I have ever known through here and I am confident they would all agree that is not remotely the case for me. I am willing to bet I am not the only not-rape-using-threat-guy out there. Her stats may be well cited and done so include them if relevant but understand my bullshit meter is pegged at the outset as regards Brownmiller. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/55 "2008-11-11T19:34:11Z")
I’d agree that it is an area that has a poisoned well of statistics. As I mentioned, I have seen her work critiqued, but usually on the conclusions she draws (and I agree with you that the patriarchal feminist viewpoint held by people such as Brownmiller and MacKinnon is mistaken to say the least) rather than on her statistics. I also haven’t read anything on this area for quite a while - believe me when you read enough in a short period it kind of puts you off for a while. The trouble is that it seems everyone who writes in the area has an axe of some sort to grind. Add to that the nature of the subject, and the historic poor police performance in the area, it makes all the statstics problemful. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/56 "2008-11-11T19:47:23Z")
Perhaps it goes without saying, but these seem to be two sides of the same sad coin. A justice system that has been by and large ineffective when it comes to pursuing and prosecuting sex crimes against women, whether being slow to actually recognize sexual assault as a crime, putting victims through the wringer, or zealously pursuing the accused with little evidence, perhaps in an attempt to ‘make up’ for such an embarrassing past. Going from one extreme to the other. As someone mentioned further up, false rape claims are infuriating because they help support the old ‘maybe she was asking for it, she’s lying, she wants attention’ reaction to rape that’s already well in place. As far as I know, most feminists would like to see women have safe, pleasurable sexual encounters– I don’t see how false accusations of rape fit into this. If anything, I’d say some portion of false accusations are a result of major shame about sex or the fear fear of being dubbed a slut. She wanted to save herself, ‘gave in,’ then decided what she did was a sin. I could be wrong here, but the false rape accusations in the first link were identified (or, at least, the women dropped their cases) early on. So early on it was considered ‘proof’ of their falseness. I can’t help but feel that the chances of being falsely accused of rape vs. actually being assaulted (forget having the assailant charged) are not quite even. Not that justice is a competition. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/57 "2008-11-11T20:08:55Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > I can’t help but feel that the chances of being falsely accused of rape vs. actually being assaulted (forget having the assailant charged) are not quite even. Not that justice is a competition. I am sure that is a safe bet. Stats thrown around here so far indicate a 40-60% false accusation rate. Two prosecutors said their opinion was 50% were bogus. That about evens it out but then we know many women never report being raped so doubtless there are more women raped than men who are falsely accused. Nevertheless, if the stats are to be believed, the numbers for false accusations is staggeringly high and not a mere handful that slip by. As such BOTH sex crimes and false accusations are worthy of serious scrutiny. Clearly it is not an easy problem. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/58 "2008-11-11T20:20:27Z")
This is what makes me very nervous about the 40-60% statistics. I know multiple women who have been raped, both those who have not reported it and those who have taken it all the way through investigations, charges being pressed and full prosecutions. I know of no men personally who claim to have been falsely accused of rape - the closest I have come is a “friend of a friend at college” type situation. Now, clearly, it isn’t going to be something a lot of men discuss; but also being raped isn’t something a lot of women are necessarily shouting from the rooftops either. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/59 "2008-11-11T20:30:39Z")
> [@villa](#): > > This is what makes me very nervous about the 40-60% statistics. I know multiple women who have been raped, both those who have not reported it and those who have taken it all the way through investigations, charges being pressed and full prosecutions. I know of no men personally who claim to have been falsely accused of rape - the closest I have come is a “friend of a friend at college” type situation. > > Now, clearly, it isn’t going to be something a lot of men discuss; but also being raped isn’t something a lot of women are necessarily shouting from the rooftops either. I’d wager no man would ever willingly admit to that to anyone. There is a knee-jerk reaction in most people that if someone was accused there must have been something to the accusation. I certainly would not mention it to anyone I know if it had ever happened to me. Women who claim to have been raped tend to elicit sympathy. While women may not go around shouting it to the world neither do I think they feel there is a stigma associated with it that would prevent them from mentioning it to their friends. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082/60 "2008-11-11T20:34:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are you saying that all women who might falsely claim rape can be spotted prior to having sex with them? No, but SOME of them can. I haven’t suggested that there’s any way for anyone to protect themselves totally from any risk, I am only saying that there are reasonable precautions people can take to reduce their risk of being victimized. “Don’t get into a sexual situation with someone you don’t trust” is good advice for everyone. > [@](#): > > \*I certainly have run into a few overtly nutty women and smartly chose to discontinue pursuing them. However, in my experience it is rare to spot all the various quirks of a person in a few hours to make a conclusion that they would falsely accuse you of rape. \*Then maybe it’s not such a good idea to have sex with someone you’ve known for only a few hours. The odds of being falsely accused of rape in such a situation are fairly low, but there are a number of other problems that could arise – STDs, unintended pregnancy, etc. If some people consider the pay off worth the risk then that’s their choice, but it isn’t _wise_. > [@](#): > > \*Heck, even knowing them awhile is no guarantee. I knew one woman (in college) for weeks before we started dating. Only _after_ we started dating did I figure out that she was batshit crazy (and I consider myself a pretty good judge of character). Got to the point she stalked me (not kidding). \*I’m sorry to hear that. It isn’t always possible to identify dangerous people right away, and I wouldn’t expect anyone to have perfect “crazy-dar”. But as you said above, there have been other cases where you did spot warning signs in other women and chose to avoid entanglement. Good for you. Sometimes you can tell and sometimes you can’t, but when there are red flags then it’s in your own best interest to heed them. > [@](#): > > \*I’d wager women may falsely claim rape for a number of reasons as well. I seriously doubt they all come from one-night stands. \*Well, this thread is specifically about women who “change their mind” the morning after. I would think that most of those do involve one-night stands. Continuing with **Whack-a-Mole** ’s later post: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What I object to in **Lamia’s** posts is the sense of turnabout is fair play. She agrees false accusations are wrong but then suggests since men have had at women for courting getting raped (because they wear a mini skirt or something) that it is somehow ok for her to say men courted a false rape accusation. I’ve said repeatedly that I _don’t_ think it’s okay to play blame the victim. I have made some rather boldly worded statements in this thread, but I am pretty sure I have not accused any actual victim of false accusations of having been “asking for it”. I’m sorry if I got carried away somewhere and said something harsher than what I really meant – I have felt my temper rising a few times in this thread – but I believe the closest I came was this: > [@Lamia](#): > > In case I wasn’t clear, I don’t think the Duke lacrosse team deserved what happened to them at all. I just think it’s interesting how men aren’t held responsible for these bad decisions the way women are. Was the Duke lacrosse team “asking for it”? No. Whose fault was it that the stripper lied? The stripper’s. But could the team have behaved in a different and more prudent manner, one that would have been less likely to leave them open to false allegations of rape? Yes. Nobody forced them to hire strippers for their private party, and the agency they chose doesn’t seem to have been a very good one (they had asked for, but didn’t get, two white strippers). The team could have been far more careful when it came to selecting the evening’s entertainment. They shouldn’t be condemned for this any more than a woman should be condemned for leaving her drink unattended at a party, but I don’t think it’s unfair to say that both are bad decisions. If we can expect women to know better than to leave their drinks unattended, I don’t think it’s too much to expect men to realize that it’s maybe not a good idea to invite a woman you hired from the first escort service in the phone book to come to a private party at your house. I wouldn’t expect them to guess that she’d invent a story about being raped, but she was a total stranger and they had no reason to trust her. I don’t want to talk too much about the Duke case though, since it wasn’t what the OP was looking for. When it comes to situations where a woman willingly consents to sex then changes her mind the next morning and makes a rape accusation, I think we’re dealing with two general types of cases. First are ones where the woman didn’t actually consent. I include in this actual rapes where the rapist is lying about having obtained consent (like maybe the woman didn’t object because she was passed out drunk), and cases where there’s some horrible misunderstanding between the two people as to what constitutes consent. In such cases the woman didn’t actually change her mind the next morning, although it might seem that way to the man. Depending on the situation a rape charge may be justified, or it may be that although the woman feels taken advantage of the man didn’t do anything criminal. Either way it’s a sad situation, but if both parties are careful and willing to communicate then it can be avoided. I’ll mention here that, for her own good, it’s very important for a woman who does NOT want to have sex to make this clear when things start moving in that direction. She might think “I’m not sure this is a good idea” is clear enough, but “No, I’m not going to have sex tonight” is better. Be direct and give the guy a chance not to be a creep. If he won’t accept that no means no then he’s a rapist, and deserves to be treated as such. I’d bet that plenty of women have made sexual choices they later regretted, but most are willing to accept that the mistake was their own. For those who blame to other person, most are content with just complaining about it to sympathetic friends. It’s a very small percentage of people who think that the correct response to making a personal mistake is to file a police report against anyone else involved. I’ve never heard of any feminist, or anyone at all, saying that they think it’s a good idea to handle genuine next-morning regrets with a visit to the police station. Women who do this are lone nuts acting independently, not part of some organized conspiracy against men. The best way to avoid this situation is not to have sex with women you don’t trust. It isn’t foolproof because there are stealth nuts out there, but a lot of problems can be avoided by not becoming intimate with people who don’t seem trustworthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/changing-your-mind-the-night-after-sex-rape-does-this-ever-happen/472082.md?page=4)