# Chaplain of the Senior Class. (A SOCAS issue) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889 "2001-03-06T04:00:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/1 "2001-03-06T04:00:07Z")
First, a little background: I’m a junior at a San Antonio, Texas high school. Every year, when the seniors graduate, an invocation is said at the beginning of the ceremony. This is done by the Chaplain of the Senior (graduating) Class. Now, my comment: Partially because I don’t want some yahoo going up there and saying a prayer that would offend Muslims/Atheists/Wiccans/whoever, I decided to throw my hat into the ring. Now, it seems I stand a good chance of winning. My question: Assuming I do win, how should I go about this invocation at graduation, while still, maintaining the integrity of the prayer? Do I say invoke “Our Creator” instead of directly mentioning Jesus? (I am A Christian.) What’s a guy to do? -Soup ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/2 "2001-03-06T04:02:14Z")
It’s impossible to say a prayer which won’t offend someone’s religious beliefs. This is one reason why SOCAS is such a good idea in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/848f3c/32.png) [@Ned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ned)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/3 "2001-03-06T04:43:40Z")
A thought for you to consider. The decision allowing school prayer in these particular circumstances is very specific. The key is that it is entirely up to the student to decide what to say. It may be a prayer but could equally be a poem or any other inspirational message. The situation you describe doesn’t sound like it meets this criteria at all. At best it is a sham disrespectful of the law and the principles of your own religious beliefs that presumably place some value on honesty. What a great way to start your senior year. If you can get away with it consider actually living up to the spirit of the decision and give a non religious message. Otherwise pick what you want, your inevitably going to offend someone by forcing them to sit through your religious exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/4 "2001-03-06T05:54:58Z")
1. Run for the office, 2. Win the election, 3. Resign from the office, 4. State in very clear terms that you are resigning because the whole concept is a clear violation of SOCAS and you find it intolerable. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/5 "2001-03-06T12:13:57Z")
Ned said: > [@](#): > > The decision allowing school prayer in these particular circumstances is very specific. Yes, it is. It says it’s not allowed. ---
**Author:** ![cameron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@cameron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cameron)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/6 "2001-03-06T12:37:53Z")
Why not take the time to find out all the different religions represented in the graduating class (don’t forget the non-religious) and make a short statement about how remarkable it is that students from such a wide variety of beliefs can co-exist without violence. In a small group I once worked with in high tech we had atheists, jews, moslems, hindus, roman catholics, protestants, buddhists, and mormons. - Don ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/7 "2001-03-06T14:52:37Z")
Two nondenomination prayers, coming right up: > [@](#): > > _Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen._ > – Madrak, in Creatures of Light and Darkness (Roger Zelazny) > [@](#): > > _We worship you oh God or Gods > Whoever you may be, > We realise that you operate > Supernaturally, > We thank you for the birds and bees, > For creatures live and dead, > But if you actually don’t exist, > Please ignore what we’ve just said._ > – A Bit of Fry and Laurie Or you could give [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62380) speech… Or you could take **cameron** ’s advice and talk about religious diversity. Or you could give a speech about SOCAS. Or you could ask for a moment of silence for reflection on the years just past and the years to come, stand quietly with your head bowed for five minutes, say “thank you” and sit down. Presumably this is something you’ll give at your own graduation, so what are they going to do – expell you? ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/8 "2001-03-06T15:34:37Z")
Here’s the $64 question: Do you attend a public school or a private school. If it’s private, then all the SOCAS issues are moot and you’re left with the simple question of what type of invocation to use. ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/9 "2001-03-06T16:51:37Z")
First off, I am of the opinion that a prayer at a high school graduation ceremony should be flatly disallowed. I consider such a prayer to be a blatant violation of SOCAS. Such a prayer is certain to offend or disenfranchise _someone_ at a ceremony that is supposed to honor them. That said, the fact remains that most schools sneak around the rules by doing the “student chaplain elected by the senior class” thing and declaring it all “free speech.” So, **Soup du jour** , I consider your approach to be a sort of damage control – by getting yourself elected, you assure that the prayer won’t be delivered by some christian-elitist who really doesn’t care about disenfranchising non-christians because “this is a christian country” and “outsiders” should just learn to deal with it. So, good on you, kiddo. I commend your sensitivity Several people have suggested that you inject a certain militacy into your “prayer.” I think that’s a great idea if you want to go that route. Personally, I loved **jr8** ’s second suggestion. However, I won’t blame you one bit if you want to avoid controversy in what is supposed to be a festive ceremony honoring your, and your classmate’s, achievement. So, I’m suggesting the good ol’ [Desiderada](http://www.sageplace.com/desiderada.htm). Sure, it’s hokey, but hokeyness is the nature of the beast at a graduation ceremony. And, although it _sounds_ prayer-ish, it is extremely non-denominational. God is only mentioned once (“Be at peace with God, whatever you conceive him to be”) and the truth of his existance is left open – I, for instance, “conceive him to be” a myth. Also, the advise in the poem is highly appropriate to a graduation ceremony. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/10 "2001-03-06T17:44:45Z")
Translate the Lord’s Prayer into Hebrew. Get naked, face Mecca, and recite it while performing your favorite Native American ceremonial dance. At the end, sacrifice a goat. That should make everybody happy. 🙂 Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chaplain-of-the-senior-class-a-socas-issue/56889/11 "2001-03-06T22:28:46Z")
Okay, I have the feeling I’m missing something here. Right now (March 2001) you are a junior. In May, the seniors will be graduating. At the graduation, the current chaplain of the senior class (whoever it is) will say a prayer for the 2001 graduation. What you are talking about is running for election to be _next year’s_ chaplain, is that it? For the graduating class of 2002? So, if you win the election, you’ll have a whole year to think about what you’re going to say? Is this a private school or a public school? A public school that has a “chaplain”? Eh, guys, I think it’s a little bit late to tell him, “It’s against the law to give a prayer”, if this is the kind of school that _already has_ a chaplain. You’re wasting your breath. Let’s face it–and I really don’t need Merriam-Webster to cite this, but here it is anyway: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: chap·lain > Pronunciation: 'cha-pl&n > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English chapelain, from Old French, from Medieval Latin cappellanus, from cappella > Date: 14th century > 1 : a clergyman in charge of a chapel > 2 : a clergyman officially attached to a branch of the military, to an institution, or to a family or court > 3 : a person chosen to conduct religious exercises (as at a meeting of a club or society) > 4 : a clergyman appointed to assist a bishop (as at a liturgical function) –a “chaplain” is a specifically Christian office. His school is probably going to be expecting a Christian prayer, not a liberal “Father/Mother God” sort of thing. But the “Desiderata” is good, although I’ll bet a nickel that most everybody will think it’s from Ecclesiastes. 😃 If you’re really uncomfortable about what to say, don’t run for office. Let the “yahoo” get up there and spout off however he likes. Are you speaking from experience? Did this happen in previous years? I’m concerned you’ll find yourself in the center of a firestorm by trying, and failing, to please everybody. It’s not up to you to singlehandedly change the school policy. And if your school is anything like my school was (downstate Illinois, early 1970s), the principal is going to want you to give him some idea of what you’re going to say _before_ you actually get up there. 😉