Chappelle talks: Why I walked away.

[even_sven]

@Lochdale

So they aren’t really Latinos then? What about those of mixed Indian-Caucasian ancestry? What are they? Half-a-Latin?

They are Latinos, but they are also White. We tend to think of Latin America as a nice even shade of brown. But they actually have their own race issues just like we do. Much of the upper class proudly traces their lily-white linneage back to Europe and won’t marry anyone who can’t do the same. Indeed, the color lines in business, etc. are even more rigid than they are here. Indians still face a huge amount of discrimination (of course, this varies by region). When we are talking about the world of politcs, business, and big money of all kinds, it’s the white people that are winning, and have for ages. Bolivia just got it’s first Indian president. Argentina is 97% caucasian. Guyana is like 50% Hindu because of their overwhelming East Indian demogrpahic. Brazil, a racial melting pot if there ever has been one, claims “Indian” as their smallest demographic. Latin America is a diverse place, but one that is still ruled by an overclass, and that overclass happens to be nearly all white.

I wonder what Chappelle thought about Africa…not exactly the friendliest place in the world despite the fact that it is mostly black. Wonder if the genocide in Dafur by Arabs against blacks bothers him at all?

Africa is a big continent. It varies from “hell on earth” to “this could be London”. There are plenty of places that have full tourist facilities and get a lot of tourist traffic from Europe, complete with bikini beaches, surfing and discos. From what I know, the life of the relatively affluent in South Africa is increadably familiqr- leafy suburbs with green lawns, big cities with wide streets and tall buildings, movie theaters, fashion magazines, clean school uniforms and the evening news.

[Equipoise]

@Lochdale

Wonder if the genocide in Dafur by Arabs against blacks bothers him at all?

I can’t believe I’m seeing those words are on my computer screen, in a place dedicated to fighting ignorance. You are a :wally (cleaned-up version because this is Cafe Society).

[Apos]

But he’s not willing to do the superstar thing in order to be $50 million rich. He’s got his limits and he’s not willing what from his point of view is his soul for $50 million. It takes integrity and guts.

What? He had pretty much full creative control over his show. He’s ALREADY a superstar and nothing will ever change that now. I just don’t get his problem. He signed a contract to do some stuff for Comedy Central, but I don’t see any evidence that they were forcing him to do anything in particular. As far as I can tell, he will continue to do stuff, and get paid for it. If he wants to get paid less, I’m sure CC would be happy with that.

Still doesn’t make a damn lick of sense. Dude went crazy.

[Ensign_Edison]

I agree with Rubystreak, who is more patient & articulate (at least without saying ‘fuck’ about a thousand times, which is why I tend to hang out in the Pit) than I, so I have nothing to add, but didn’t want her (I believe?) to be a lone voice.

[Sal_Ammoniac]

I think some of you guys are missing something. Here’s the relevant bit, bolding mine: “Culturally: ‘The bottom line was, white people own everything, and where can a black person go and be himself or say something that’s familiar to him and not have to explain or apologize?’” Obviously, there’s some exaggeration for effect there, but I read this as saying, “In the cultural space, whites predominate, and I find it hard to be myself there” – a fairly unimpeachable sentiment. He’s not talking about money and assets here, so whether or not he’s richer than the average white person is completely irrelevant.

[Skywatcher]

@Ogre

Culturally: “The bottom line was, white people own everything, and where can a black person go and be himself or say something that’s familiar to him and not have to explain or apologize?”

Time Magazine?

[Jayrot]

I’d like to just say that I’m happy some people have come in to defend Chapelle (even if only in principle). The first 10 or so responses to this thread were rather disappointing.

[Ghanima]

I think Chappelle’s done a decent job of explaining himself. I do think he sounds a tad paranoid, and I read the “letter to white people” with an eyebrow raised. As a white woman, I will not ever really be able to understand his position, though. But I agree with Larry Borgia’s comment in post #33.

[Lochdale]

@Equipoise

I can’t believe I’m seeing those words are on my computer screen, in a place dedicated to fighting ignorance. You are a :wally (cleaned-up version because this is Cafe Society).

How exactly would you describe it then?

[Lochdale]

Or maybe we are giving him too much credit. He may just have gone a little crazy with the pressure of trying to produce a third season to top the first two. This might be him just ranting or it might just be a means of deflecting the fact that he lost the plot.

[Equipoise]

@Lochdale

How exactly would you describe it then?

Describe you wondering if a sensitive and intelligent man like Dave Chappelle is “bothered” by a genocide? I’m sorry, there aren’t enough words in the Pit or hell to describe what I think of you saying such a thing. Not that I would want to. You disgust me and I’d rather not have anything more to do with you.

[Lochdale]

@Equipoise

Describe you wondering if a sensitive and intelligent man like Dave Chappelle is “bothered” by a genocide? I’m sorry, there aren’t enough words in the Pit or hell to describe what I think of you saying such a thing. Not that I would want to. You disgust me and I’d rather not have anything more to do with you.

It’s not the pit so I’ll try and be civil. My point was, which you obviously missed perhaps because I didn’t write it particularly well, was that if Chappelle were going to go off about racism and what-not then perhaps he could also have gone on of some of the more extreme examples of racism going on in the world today. Seeing as how he had jetted off to Africa and all. Put another way, I found his comments to be a little trite given the money he made, the amount of control he had over his show and the siginificanly larger and more immediate problems racism problems.

As for Chappelle being a sensitive man, well I don’t know him so I won’t assume whether he is or not. He strikes me as being intelligent though as well as damn funny.

But hey, this isn’t pit so I’m just sad to see you get so worked up about it. Have a pint and relax.

[Loopydude]

That “open letter” thing is not for real, now, is it? It seems like people are treating it as if it was…

[pizzabrat]

@Loopydude

That “open letter” thing is not for real, now, is it? It seems like people are treating it as if it was…

No, like it said on the link, that columnist is the author.

[pizzabrat]

@Lochdale

It’s not the pit so I’ll try and be civil. My point was, which you obviously missed perhaps because I didn’t write it particularly well, was that if Chappelle were going to go off about racism and what-not then perhaps he could also have gone on of some of the more extreme examples of racism going on in the world today.

Are, like, just playing the part of the cartoonishly defensive about race white guy just prove his point? He can have a valid complaint about the racism he experiences in his home country, you know, without being obligated to make any statements about events in other parts of the world that aren’t relevant to any of us.

[Rubystreak]

@Lochdale

Blacks only make up about 12% of the population. Just how much do they need to own for you to be happy?

I’d like to not see them scoring lower on standardized tests, not comprising 40+% of the prison population, and not having to worry about being pulled over by cops, treated differently in stores, more likely to be unemployed, murdered, drop out of high school, live in poverty, etc. It’s not really about money per se; money is just a nice, concrete way to measure it. I also doubt they own 12% of the wealth of this nation, but that’s a symptom, not the cause.

To be sure there are still issues relating to racism particularly with regard to Black Americans but that does not mean 1) You can now include Latinos in your rainbow coalition of victimhood 2) a man making in excess of $50m is a good example to highlight that racism.

After I stopped laughing at your #1, I was able to wonder how Dave Chappelle making $50 million means he cannot have an epiphany about racism and his effect on it. I also don’t understand how you can dismiss his decision not to accept money for something that he felt was wrong, and in such a cavalier and scornful manner.

White people don’t own everything. Some white people are very wealthy but most white people are not. You seem to be a little paranoid about this.

No, you seem defensive. White people own the vast majority of the means of production in this country, set cultural norms, make the laws, enforce them, and all that. That is the real wealth/power source; $50 million for a TV show does not touch this.

And do you think, perhaps, that there may be a socio-economic cause to Black rates of imprisonment?

And do you think, perhaps, that racism has something to do with the socio-economic status of black people in America? I think it really, really does. It’s endemic, systemic, and it’s not even close to over.

For example, in countries like England most of the prison population is white, what are they doing wrong such that they are imprisoning their own white brothers? Your premise is overbroad, simplistic and really without much merit.

Your argument is so ridiculous, all I’ll offer in response is a cite, and see if you can still dismiss the effect of race on African Americans WRT incarceration.

Or perhaps he just quit because the pressure was too much, he didn’t need the money, he got lazy, he joined a cult, likes farms in Ohio a lot, was burned out etc. etc.

Any one of the above are as legitimate as your pov.

And none of them are remote as valid at the one THE MAN HIMSELF possesses. Why do you think your armchair psychoanalysis is more valid than what Chappelle says are his reasons? My god, you really have no clue.

[Askia]

@Apos

What? He had pretty much full creative control over his show. He’s ALREADY a superstar and nothing will ever change that now. I just don’t get his problem.

Dave did not have full creative control. Dave Chapelle’s not quite a superstar, and he was definitely veering toward that sphere of star/whoredom with an attendant degree of attention, speculation, fascination and defamation that only the rich and celebrated suffer and endure. These past three years have raised his public profile in ways he finds deeply troubling and deeply disconcerting. It’s clear you don’t get his problem, his rationales for walking away from it, or why he quit, summing it up as, “Dude went crazy.” Maybe that’s a good thing.

[hawksgirl]

@Lochdale

Are only white people capable of racism or is it possible for other races/ethnic groups to also be racist?

::sociology student mode::

As I understand it, most -isms (like racism, sexism, &c) are only considered to be such when coming from the dominatant group (whites in the US). Also only the dominant group can discriminate , but any group can be prejudiced against another group.

So, only whites can be racist, anyone else is just prejudiced. Feel free to correct, since I’m not an expert by any means.

[Lochdale]

@hawksgirl

So, only whites can be racist, anyone else is just prejudiced. Feel free to correct, since I’m not an expert by any means.

What about, for example, racism in South American countries where whites are not the majority? Or in the Sudan where non-Black Arabs are the majority. Under your model then non-whites can indeed be racist as well.

The things, it’s very easy and also very dangerous to blame all minority problems on “racism”. It’s a glib and unintellectual way to try and explain away what are complex problems. It demonizes one section of society while obviating another from accepting responsibilty. Cries of racism are often a childish response to these complex issues.

To be sure there is racism in America. It’s vital that black Americans receive adequate assistance in the form of affirmitive action (limited solely to black Americans to address the overwhelming problem of incorporating a peoples who were literally slaves into society as a whole). It’s important that racism is stamped out and that we strive to create a society with equality of opportunity. That’s it though. We cannot and should not try to create an egalitrian society because we simply aren’t all equal. That sort of social engineering can lead to all sorts of trouble.

Chappelle grew up in a suburban, middle-class family. While he may have experience racism it hasn’t prevented him from being an extremely popular and successful actor and comedian. It’s my belief that he just caved in under the pressure of having to produce a third season given the quality of the first two. He’s now looking for whatever outlet he can, either for himself or his fans, to justify this breakdown.

[SkipMagic]

@Equipoise

I’m sorry, there aren’t enough words in the Pit or hell to describe what I think of you saying such a thing. Not that I would want to. You disgust me and I’d rather not have anything more to do with you.

Despite this not being the Pit, you’re sure getting your personal digs in, anyway. You need to stop. Also, the Wally or putz smiley is considered an insult, so keep it to the confines of the Pit when aiming it at another poster.

Okay, as for this thread: it started out as a Cafe Society thread, but since it has morphed more into a debate, I’m gonna kick it over to Great Debates.