# Characters who are almost absent from a work named after them **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 23, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806 "2021-11-23T13:31:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/81 "2021-11-24T18:33:02Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > One crazy old account lists 40 guys in there! Anyway, one guy was calling it out, and chucked a spear at it. The Greek myths are a source of never-ending wonder to me. Sometimes they are wonderfully thought out stories, with details and ephemera worked out to give it an air of verisimilitude. And sometimes the actions of characters seem outrageously absurd. Cassandra, of course, famously had the gift of prophecy, and TOLD the Trojans there were Greeks hiding in it. But part of her curse was to not be believed. Helen was supposed to have suspected a trick, and walked around the horse, calling out the names of Greek warriors she suspected were inside in imitation of the voices of their wives, and almost got Anticlus to cry out. Odysseus, though, clapped his hand over Anticlus’ mouth to keep him from crying out. Laocoon famously guessed the truth, but Poseidon sent two sea snakes to kill him and his sons before they could blab, this giving us the famous Roman sculpture now in the Vatican Museum And there’s your story about the spear chucker. You can see all of these accounts (undoubtedly from different traditions. It’s hard to believe that Helen, Cassandra, Laocoon, and Spear Guy were all saying at the same time that the Horse was a fraud. Even a dumb Trojan would start to suspect something if that were the case) as attempts to show _why_ the Trojans were oblivious to the threat – You see, they had a chance to be warned, but the bearer was killed by a god /disbelieved/thwarted by Odysseus’ hand. But the obvious question is – Why not just open up a hole in the horse and look inside? Too obvious, I guess. It’s like the relatively late story that Thetis didn’t want her son Achilles to go to the Trojan War (where she knew he would be killed), so she hif him among the daughters of Lycomedes on the island of Skyros. Odysseus found him out, though, by the strategem of sending in a peddler with a cart of beauty items and weaponry. Achilles was the one who went for the sword, and ignored the perfumes and Botox. It’s a wonderfully ludicrous story, which brings up a bunch of questions Achilles could hide among Lycomedes’ daughters? Really? Achilles was the mightiest warrior of the Greeks. How built and buff were Lycomedes’ daughters? Did any of them have beards, too?Did it really take the cleverest and raftiest of the Greeks that long to figure out which daughter was really a guy? And did he really have to come up with a trick in order to find out? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/82 "2021-11-24T18:43:42Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > …the cleverest and raftiest of the Greeks… That’s an especially on-point typo when talking about Odysseus. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/83 "2021-11-24T18:55:38Z")
This excerpt from Wiki makes it sound like it was never intended to be a gift from the Greeks to the Trojans in the first place. It was supposed to be a gift from the Greeks to Athena, to ensure a safe voyage home. Funny how million year old oral narratives can’t stay consistent 🙂 “Sinon tells the Trojans that the Horse is an offering to the goddess [Athena](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena), meant to atone for the previous desecration of her temple at Troy by the Greeks and ensure a safe journey home for the Greek fleet. Sinon tells the Trojans that the Horse was built to be too large for them to take it into their city and gain the favor of Athena for themselves.” ---
**Author:** ![TCMF-2L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tcmf-2l/32/16553_2.png) [@TCMF-2L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TCMF-2L)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/84 "2021-11-24T19:38:14Z")
The Television show **Taggart** , a police drama set in Scotland, ran from 1983 until 2010 and initially starred **Mark McManus** as the titular police detective DCI Taggart. McManus died in 1994 and the producers also killed off the character. Hence for a majority of its existence there was no Taggart in Taggart. TCMF-2L ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/85 "2021-11-24T19:56:35Z")
Ned Devine only shows up for a scene or two in **Waking Ned Devine** , as a corpse (and in another character’s dream). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/86 "2021-11-24T23:06:13Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Did you think the horse was a battering ram? I was speaking sloppily of course about the fact that they use the Trojan Horse to get inside the walls. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/87 "2021-11-24T23:06:22Z")
**Rosemary’s Baby** doesn’t show up until the end of the movie; and I believe not until the end of the book too. But _Rosemary’s Pregnancy_ (which is what both are mainly concerned with), wouldn’t make for a catchy title. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/88 "2021-11-24T23:19:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m more than halfway through Melville’s **Moby Dick** , I am impressed that you got that far if you are not reading some abridged version. You could try an unabridged _ **Treasure Island** _ if you enjoy this kind of literature. _ **Les Miserables** _ is another. Actually, that might be another thread. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/89 "2021-11-25T00:32:11Z")
It’s not inconsistent - it was part of the plan. The Greeks _pretended_ they’d built it as a gift for Athena, then couldn’t take it with them on their ships because it was too big. That’s one of the things that explains why the Trojans didn’t just break open the horse to check inside - damaging a gift to a Goddess would displease the Goddess greatly. That’s not fanwanking, it’s just the way people thought at the time, so much so that it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the poem because none of the listeners would ever have contemplated breaking a gift to a powerful Goddess. Hence them believing that the spear-thrower was killed for attempting to do just that. The other thing is that the Greeks managed to trick everyone except those a bit more in the know that they’d all sailed away. All their ships were gone (and would usually need the left-behind Greeks as crew just to sail away), and a supposed turncoat convinced the Trojans that he’d been left behind while everyone else went. It’s also not implausible at all that the city-state’s leaders would ignore people warning them of danger - I mean, we’ve seen enough of that in modern life. And two of the people with doubts died (one before he could even give a warning), and the other two were women, one of whom cursed to never be believed, and the other a foreigner who’d started all the mess in the first place. Them giving warnings would make the Trojans believe the opposite of what they were saying more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/90 "2021-11-25T00:45:50Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > the other two were women, one of whom cursed to never be believed _“Not all of the Greek soldiers are in that horse!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/91 "2021-11-25T00:46:42Z")
“There might be enemy soldiers in there, but let’s all go to bed. We’ll find out in the morning”. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/92 "2021-11-25T04:27:06Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > gift for Athena Beware of gifts bearing Greeks! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/93 "2021-11-25T08:13:44Z")
Gian Carlo Menotti’s opera, _[The Consul](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Consul)_. The title character doesn’t sing or speak, and we never see him. His single “appearance” is his shadow on a translucent window in his private office door as a visitor leaves his office. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/94 "2021-11-25T15:36:25Z")
Does The Iceman ever Come(th)? Not being snarky, I’ve never seen it. Also, and this is a bit of a stretch, in “The Exorcist,” Father Merrin (one of two exorcists) doesn’t show up until the third act, save for a bit of exposition at the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/95 "2021-11-25T20:32:27Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/9sL102pyaLg/hqdefault.jpg "Naked Lunch") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sL102pyaLg) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/96 "2021-11-25T21:26:06Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I am impressed that you got that far if you are not reading some abridged version. > > You could try an unabridged _ **Treasure Island** _ if you enjoy this kind of literature. _ **Les Miserables** _ is another. Actually, that might be another thread. I find this sort of comment hard to understand, yet I’ve encountered it from a lot of people. I _like_ reading _Moby Dick_. I like Melville’s writing, weird digressions and all. I find it an easy read, in fact. The version I’m reading now actually seems longer than the one I read many years ago, because I don’t recall that copy having all the quotations at the beginning. I’ve never read _Treasure Island_, but I’ve read lots of Stevenson. I think _Dr. Jeckyll and Mister Hyde_ is similarly a great read, if not as long. I haven’t yet read _Les Miserables_, although I started reading it a little while ago before I was distracted by something else. It’;s still on my “to read” shelf. I’ve read unabridged versions of _War and Peace_ and a slightly abridged version of _The Fall of the Roman Empire_. Length doesn’t daunt me. There are still some classics I don’t really care for. I can’t get through James Fenimore Cooper, and I’m bored top death by about half of Charles Dickens’ output (although I love the other half.) ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/97 "2021-11-25T22:12:14Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I can’t get through James Fenimore Cooper, Mark Twain agreed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenimore\_Cooper%27s\_Literary\_Offenses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenimore_Cooper%27s_Literary_Offenses) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/98 "2021-11-25T22:12:19Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Did you think the horse was a battering ram? Just like a Trojan computer virus which forcibly uninstalls your antivirus ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/99 "2021-11-25T22:15:11Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > But the obvious question is – Why not just open up a hole in the horse and look inside? Haven’t you ever heard that you shouldn’t look a gift horse in the mouth? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806/100 "2021-11-25T23:46:52Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > Mark Twain agreed. [Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenimore_Cooper%27s_Literary_Offenses) Twain wrote a second piece about Cooper’s style which is not as well known, but which I think is funnier: [http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/twain-coopers-prose-style.pdf](http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/twain-coopers-prose-style.pdf) > [@](#): > > There was only one fact in that long sentence that was worth stating, and it could have been > squeezed into these few words—and with advantage to the narrative, too: “During the flight one > of the Indians had killed a fawn and he brought it into camp.” You will notice that “During the > flight one of the Indians had killed a fawn and he brought it into camp,” is more straightforward > and business-like, and less mincing and smirky, than it is to say, “Notwithstanding the swiftness > of their flight, one of the lndians had found an opportunity to strike a straggling fawn with an > arrow, and had borne the more preferable fragments of the victim, patiently on his shoulders, to the > stopping-place.” You will notice that the form “During the flight one of the Indians had killed a > fawn and he brought it into camp” holds up its chin and moves to the front with the steady stride of > a grenadier, whereas the form “Notwithstanding the swiftness of their flight, one of the Indians had > found an opportunity to strike a straggling fawn with an arrow, and had borne the more preferable > fragments of the victim, patiently on his shoulders, to the stopping-place” simpers along with an > airy, complacent, monkey-with-a-parasol gait which is not suited to the transportation of raw meat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-almost-absent-from-a-work-named-after-them/954806.md?page=6)