# Characters who are much bitcher than they let on **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412 "2008-10-17T17:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/21 "2008-10-18T00:30:17Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > Phoebe on _Friends_ would say and do bitchy stuff all the time, and never get called on it because of being pegged as all sweet and New Agey. She was a right royal bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/22 "2008-10-18T00:39:21Z")
Captain Jean-Luc Picard. For the sake of his thrice-damned “Prime Directive”, he stood by and _watched_ while an entire civilization asphyxiated as their planet’s atmosphere boiled away into space. (Admittedly, Worf’s brother saved a few - but not with Picard’s consent). Starfleet’s most decorated captain is a monster. Rorschach may have _said_, in “Watchmen”, that he would watch the world die and say “No” when it begged to be saved - but push come to shove, he wouldn’t do it. Picard did. Bitch. ---
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/23 "2008-10-18T11:48:01Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Nitpick - that was Rachel. Nah, it was both of them - Rachel originally said Phoebe was pregnant, because Monica found out about a positive pregnancy test and Rachel didn’t want to spoil Monica’s wedding day by ‘stealing her thunder’. I never thought about Phoebe being bitchy. She is. Not sure about Monica though; Rachel certainly could be. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/24 "2008-10-18T18:53:19Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Captain Jean-Luc Picard. For the sake of his thrice-damned “Prime Directive”, he stood by and _watched_ while an entire civilization asphyxiated as their planet’s atmosphere boiled away into space. (Admittedly, Worf’s brother saved a few - but not with Picard’s consent). Starfleet’s most decorated captain is a monster. Rorschach may have _said_, in “Watchmen”, that he would watch the world die and say “No” when it begged to be saved - but push come to shove, he wouldn’t do it. Picard did. Bitch. Butterfly Effect - you can never know what consequences your actions are going to have, so the best you can do is to let history unfold as it is supposed to. I would argue that it is a hell of a lot harder to do nothing like you are supposed to than to try to help people who need it, but the right thing to do is to do nothing. As for Monica being a bitch, there was Chandler being afraid of her when he cleaned the house for her one day (although she said afterwards that he shouldn’t be afraid of her). There was also the whole, “Let’s spend all your money on our wedding!” thing (although she did come to her senses on that one). Then there were the horribly expensive boots that Chandler wanted her to take back, but she wouldn’t, and then ended up not wearing because they hurt and lost them in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/25 "2008-10-18T19:10:47Z")
And in another episode, Monica bullies Chandler into making gifts for each other for Valentine’s Day, and neither of them is up to the challenge. Except Chandler finds a mix tape that someone else (Janice, as it turns out) made for him, and Monica makes some lame gift. It always felt like she was bullying him into doing stuff he didn’t like. ETA: Though she was supportive of him when she thought he was into shark porn. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/26 "2008-10-18T19:15:14Z")
I’m showing my age, but what the hell. Helen on “The Andy Griffith Show”–unplumbed depths of autocracy and anality, there. Marcia on “The Brady Bunch”. Never saw her appeal, always had sympathy for Jan; I’m sure Marcia resorted to hair pulling, “Indian” rubs and worse things to Rule. There is something ancient Greek about Marcia and her smarm. Mary on “Little House”, pre-blindness (or is that only in the books? don’t remember). Actually, in the books, this is addressed by Laura, post-blindness. And Mary admits to irking Laura on purpose. Julie McCoy from the “Love Boat”–can’t you see her tearing strips off Gopher? I could. Rhoda from MTM show. Except she did let it show. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/27 "2008-10-18T19:34:47Z")
Well done, eleanorigby! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/28 "2008-10-18T19:37:30Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, except in Season 6. Actually I’d say Willow is the queen of this category. Lois Griffin’s monsterhood is played for laughs, but Willow is evil pretty much from season 2 on. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/29 "2008-10-18T19:42:38Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Nitpick - that was Rachel. Actually, no. The girls knew about the pregnancy before the guys for obvious reasons. When Joey overheard them talking about it, Phoebe claimed that she was the one pregnant and told Joey that a guy named “David Lynn” or some such had knocked her up, picking the name not out of a hot but because she didn’t like the guy and knew Joey would immediately go kick his ass. Just as she expected, Joey left, chanting the guy’s name and intending to knock out his teeth. When Joey returned, it was not clear whether he had found his intended victim, but he did have a diamond ring and immediately proposed to Phoebe. I can remember stuff froma 10-year-old tv series, but not useful things. God hates me. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/30 "2008-10-18T19:48:32Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Captain Jean-Luc Picard. For the sake of his thrice-damned “Prime Directive”, he stood by and _watched_ while an entire civilization asphyxiated as their planet’s atmosphere boiled away into space. Why are you blaming him? It’s the Federation’s Prime Directive, not his. At worse he’s a pussy for not finding a reason to ignore it the way Kirk always did. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/31 "2008-10-18T19:51:23Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Why are you blaming him? It’s the Federation’s Prime Directive, not his. At worse he’s a pussy for not finding a reason to ignore it the way Kirk always did. You know, I don’t think the Enterprise could have done anything significant in that episode anyway. There was no technological resolution possible, and they could not possibly have evacuated millions of people by themselves–certainly not in the time they had. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/32 "2008-10-18T21:37:10Z")
You know who from the Star Trek world was bitchier than he let on? Spock, that’s who. Mr. I Have No Emotions sure gave out enough zingers. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/33 "2008-10-19T08:17:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You know, I don’t think the Enterprise could have done anything significant in that episode anyway. **There was no technological resolution possible** , and they could not possibly have evacuated millions of people by themselves–certainly not in the time they had. Bah, since when has that been a problem? They still had a deflector dish didn’t they! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/34 "2008-10-19T08:44:53Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Butterfly Effect - you can never know what consequences your actions are going to have, so the best you can do is to let history unfold as it is supposed to. Bullshit. History isn’t “supposed” to do anything, and inaction has consequences too. History is what all people create all the time. Claiming to stand outside it is as arrogant as it is stupid. Besides, for every butterfly that causes a hurricane, another butterfly prevents one. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/35 "2008-10-19T15:51:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You know, I don’t think the Enterprise could have done anything significant in that episode anyway. There was no technological resolution possible, and they could not possibly have evacuated millions of people by themselves–certainly not in the time they had. Millions? No, of course not. But they could have saved many, many more people than the dozens who actually were beamed up to the holodeck. The Enterprise has a normal crew complement of about a thousand, and there are several episodes where she evacuates the crews of other crippled ships - the life-support systems can clearly accommodate several hundred extra passengers, at the very least. Possibly more - it’s magic-tech, after all - a thousand or two evacuees wouldn’t be inconceivable, if they packed 'em in the corridors. Still would only be a drop in the bucket compared to a planetary disaster, of course. But you know what? It would still be a hell of a lot more than they did, and it would make all the difference in the world to the families that were saved. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/36 "2008-10-19T15:57:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Actually I’d say Willow is the queen of this category. Lois Griffin’s monsterhood is played for laughs, but Willow is evil pretty much from season 2 on. How so? Occasionally selfish, certainly - but on balance, she does far more good than harm, often at considerable personal risk. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/37 "2008-10-19T18:09:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Bullshit. History isn’t “supposed” to do anything, and inaction has consequences too. > > History is what all people create all the time. Claiming to stand outside it is as arrogant as it is stupid. Besides, for every butterfly that causes a hurricane, another butterfly prevents one. I guess when you don’t know what the ultimate consequences of your actions (or inactions) are going to be, the best you can do is follow your beliefs, and Captain Picard believed in the Prime Directive. I don’t think that makes him a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/38 "2008-10-19T18:14:51Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > How so? Occasionally selfish, certainly - but on balance, she does far more good than harm, often at considerable personal risk. I didn’t say “pure” evil. But casting the spell to make Xander fall out of love/lust with her, and thus literally fucking with his mind, was evil. Preparing to summon Satan to wreak revenge on Verucca for Verucca’s having sex with Oz was likewise evil; she just got afraid of the personal consequences at the last second, but I’ve never believed she truly repented of the impulse. And resurrecting Buffy was equal parts arrogant, selfish, & evil; she freaking RIPPED BUFFY OUT OF HEAVEN because she missed her, when a moment’s thought should have told her that Buffy was headed for the choir invisible, not the pits of Gehenna. Aly Hannigan is the cutest thing in 12 states, but Willow’s evil. Turn your back on her at your peril. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/39 "2008-10-19T19:12:34Z")
Varsuuvius from Order of the Stick. At least, up until [#595](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html) (warning, spoilers!). Now he/she’s being as bitchy as he/she lets on, which is to say quite. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/40 "2008-10-19T23:58:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > And resurrecting Buffy was equal parts arrogant, selfish, & evil; she freaking RIPPED BUFFY OUT OF HEAVEN because she missed her, when a moment’s thought should have told her that Buffy was headed for the choir invisible, not the pits of Gehenna. > > Aly Hannigan is the cutest thing in 12 states, but Willow’s evil. Turn your back on her at your peril. I agree with most of what you said, but I’d make two points about the excerpted portion above: 1.) Prior to Buffy’s death, the Scoobies had never encountered any sort of “heaven”, or met anyone who’d been there. They had, on the other hand, encountered people who’d been in one sort of hell or another. It wasn’t entirely unreasonable for them to assume that the afterlife is an utterly, uniformly dismal place. Willow seemed genuinely shocked when she learned Buffy had been in heaven - she may have been thoughtless, but she wasn’t knowingly yanking Buffy from the Choir Invisible. 2.) _12_ states? Unless you’re talking about nation-states, then that number has to go up to at least 36. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412.md?page=3)