# Characters who are much bitcher than they let on **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 17, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412 "2008-10-17T17:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/61 "2008-10-21T01:50:05Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > But what I’m saying is that Joss was saying Willow is a magic addict _because she’s_ someone who slowly got corrupted because of her odd combination of shyness, brilliance, body dysmorphia, self-loathing, and willpower. I think the addiction was the manifestation of exactly that corruption. I think he did do exactly what you think he didn’t. The background was laid for that, but the execution was poor (and can’t be blamed on Joss - he wasn’t involved in the day to day operations at Buffy by that point) - the audience is whiplashed going from “OMWF” in which magic symbolizes love and freedom (and “Family” for that matter) to “Smashed” in which magic is an external force that Willow’s bad behavior can be blamed on. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/62 "2008-10-21T18:13:31Z")
Do we have an internet law for Joss Whedon yet? I think we need one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/63 "2008-10-21T18:14:55Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Do we have an internet law for Joss Whedon yet? I think we need one. 😃 What law do you propose, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/64 "2008-10-21T20:15:38Z")
Can we stop talking about Buffy now? The show was halfway decent and relied way too much on the charisma of its stars. Then Seth Green left, and it was all downhill from there. But this is not a Buffy thread, and it is way, way headed that way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/65 "2008-10-21T21:23:09Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And in another episode, Monica bullies Chandler into making gifts for each other for Valentine’s Day, and neither of them is up to the challenge. Except Chandler finds a mix tape that someone else (Janice, as it turns out) made for him, and Monica makes some lame gift. Monica didn’t even make the sock bunny. She stole it from Pheobe. I don’t think Monica was really meant to be a bitch, she just had ideas about how her life should be and tried to make them come true, regardless of whether or not they were good ideas (like the beautiful guestroom). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/66 "2008-10-21T23:39:22Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Can we stop talking about Buffy now? Ok - how about Riker, who came up with this line (to Geordie and Data): “I never thought I’d see a blind man helping an android how to paint” Uncool, man. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/67 "2008-10-21T23:51:12Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Ok - how about Riker, who came up with this line (to Geordie and Data): “I never thought I’d see a blind man helping an android how to paint” > Uncool, man. Leave poor Willy alone. It’s understandable that he’d be a little bitchy, seeing as he was not merely the most useless person on the Enterprise, but, in fact, in all of Starfleet. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/68 "2008-10-22T01:03:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Leave poor Willy alone. It’s understandable that he’d be a little bitchy, seeing as he was not merely the most useless person on the Enterprise, but, in fact, in all of Starfleet. At the risk of this turning into a Star Trek thread instead of a Buffy one, I’d have to disagree. That title goes to his ex-and-future-wife Deanna Troi, whose general obnoxiousness combined with uselessness and pushiness make her a personal bugaboo for me. She was pretyt Bitchy herself. Sure, she doesn’t really let it on, but she’s basically walking around reading everyone whether they like it or not. I was waiting for some alien to scream about the horrible crime she’d just committed and decapitate her on the spot, since she’s just comitted a grievous offense against their people’s law by using her mental abilities like that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/69 "2008-10-22T07:36:18Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I don’t think Monica was really meant to be a bitch, she just had ideas about how her life should be and tried to make them come true, regardless of whether or not they were good ideas (like the beautiful guestroom). Monica wasn’t a bitch, she was a chef. Anyone who’s ever worked in an upscale restaurant would be intimately familiar with her personality type. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/70 "2008-10-22T07:51:05Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Ok - how about Riker, who came up with this line (to Geordie and Data): “I never thought I’d see a blind man helping an android how to paint” > Uncool, man. My favorite TNG episode of all time is **Second Chances** –the one where they find Riker’s double. And it becomes clear that the “real” Riker was also the “evil twin” of the scenario. I second Rose on **The Golden Girls**. She didn’t just get good digs at Blanche’s expense, she also got a few pretty good lines off of Dorothy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/71 "2008-10-22T16:49:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Monica wasn’t a bitch, she was a chef. Anyone who’s ever worked in an upscale restaurant would be intimately familiar with her personality type. Yes I think we agree that while Monica has control issues and some OCD-like sympotoms she is not a true bitch. Racheal is the true bitch on Friends, but a less interesting topic for this thread, as she does not even attempt to hide it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/72 "2008-10-22T16:52:42Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > Yes I think we agree that while Monica has control issues and some OCD-like sympotoms she is not a true bitch. > Racheal is the true bitch on Friends, but a less interesting topic for this thread, as she does not even attempt to hide it. I don’t think she’d \*\*understand \*\*the wisdom of hiding it. Except, of course, from Joey, whom she was rarely bitchy and who, in a perfect world, she would have ended up with rather than Ross. (This might also have spared the world Joey, which apart from Andrea Anders’s & Drea de Mateo’s remarkable legs had little to recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/73 "2008-10-22T17:09:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What law do you propose, exactly? Some kind of law about how any generic discussion of tv characters will end up bogged down in a discussion of Joss’ characters. After thinking more about it (I’m unemployed; I have time for these things) and reading examples here, I concede that Monica is guilty more of JAPpiness than bitchiness. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/74 "2008-10-22T17:32:01Z")
Pa Ingalls, from “Little House on the Prairie (TV)” You could just see it in his eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/75 "2008-10-22T19:04:33Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > Some kind of law about how any generic discussion of tv characters will end up bogged down in a discussion of Joss’ characters.. Given my druthers I’d be talking about The West Wing, but none of the characters there are bitchier than they let on (by which I mean they tend to be full-bore with their bitchiness). Bartlet comes close, I suppose. But it wasn’t that he was hiding the badass; it was that he let him out as appropriate. My new favorite WW moment is when a furious Bartlet demands that someone justify to him the notion of a proportionate response to an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412/76 "2008-10-22T19:09:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > At the risk of this turning into a Star Trek thread instead of a Buffy one, I’d have to disagree. That title goes to his ex-and-future-wife Deanna Troi, whose general obnoxiousness combined with uselessness and pushiness make her a personal bugaboo for me. Deanna had boobies, which are useful. Also, in her blue dress, she is positively lovely. > [@](#): > > She was pretyt Bitchy herself. Sure, she doesn’t really let it on, but she’s basically walking around reading everyone whether they like it or not. I was waiting for some alien to scream about the horrible crime she’d just committed and decapitate her on the spot, since she’s just comitted a grievous offense against their people’s law by using her mental abilities like that. I don’t think that’s true. My impression was always that her empathic powers didn’t have an “off” switch any more than her ears did. If she were among a group of people and not concentrating on any one of them she’d just get a background hum, just Crusher, say, would when near people talking in a conversation not involving her; but the very act of focusing her attention on someone enoguh to have a conversation meant that she’d get their emotions too, whether she wanted it or not. (Data excepted.) (And I’m not saying pre-chip Data didn’t have emotions; he obviously did and was self-deceived about them.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-are-much-bitcher-than-they-let-on/468412.md?page=3)