# Characters who got a slap on the wrist but deserved much more (spoilers about Eureka and Torchwood) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570 "2009-07-20T00:09:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/21 "2009-07-20T18:31:55Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You know, I’m not sure Angel would agree that he was morally innocent of those crimes. Oh, don’t enable Angel’s addiction to moping. If you wanted to blame him for the Kennedy assassination, the Hundred Years’ War and the dinosaurs dying out, he would happily let you. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/22 "2009-07-20T18:32:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You know, I’m not sure Angel would agree that he was morally innocent of those crimes. Of course not. More reasons to brood. But those centuries in a hell dimension meant he didn’t get off scot free. And probably gave him even more reasons to brood! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/23 "2009-07-20T19:13:47Z")
Most of the cast of _Battlestar Galactica_. Callie murders a prisoner in cold blood. She gets 30 days in the brig for unauthorized discharge of a firearm. Helo disobeys a direct order and sabotages the Fleets “last, best hope” of ending the Cylon war with a biological weapon. As punishment, he stars in one of the worst episodes of the series. Starbuck, Tigh, Chief, Anders et al murder suspected collaborators without penalty. Rosilyn and friends try to steal an election without penalty. Chief murders a redshirt, helping Boomer escape with the poptart. He goes to the brig briefly. Tigh—how many times did he get drunk and slug somebody…including Adama? Starbuck–how may times did she get drunk and slug somebody, including Tigh and Lee? Lee and Starbuck–both committed adultery while in the military. that enough to get you court martialed in the U.S. Military. Nothing happens. Baltar–flips sides repeatedly, sells out the fleet, generally annoys everyone, and s punished by banging the best available talent throughout the fleet, cylon and human. Helo mutinees against Starbuck on the Demetrious. Nothing happens. Anders shoots Gaeta during the mutiny on the Demetrious. Nothing happens. Starbuck falsifies flight training/passes the older Adama brother when she should have failed him, and the boy kills himself in a viper crash. Nothing happens. Pretty much the only people that really pay for their crimes are Gaeta and Zarek, and that happens at the very end of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/24 "2009-07-20T19:19:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Most of the cast of _Battlestar Galactica_. Counselor, I sense your love of BG is something less than it once was. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/25 "2009-07-20T19:22:29Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Oh, don’t enable Angel’s addiction to moping. If you wanted to blame him for the Kennedy assassination, the Hundred Years’ War and the dinosaurs dying out, he would happily let you. I’m not enabling ole broody. But Angel is not Angelus with something removed; Angelus is not a demon controlling Angelus’ body. _Angelus is part of Angel_. The impulses that made Angel the badassest badass among the vampires are part of Angel. I agree that it’s pointless to punish Angel for things he did as Angelus, but I’m not sure it’s unjust. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/26 "2009-07-20T19:23:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Counselor, I sense your love of BG is something less than it once was. Yeah…I really did not appreciate the ending. Even a Butch & Sundance blaze of glory ending woulda been better than that fiasco. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/27 "2009-07-20T19:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Star trek. The prime directive. Everybody. Nobody got demoted or fired for breaking it. See, for example, the entire premise of _Voyager_. The whole reason they were stuck in the Delta Quadrant in the first place was that they decided that the opportunity to flagrantly violate the Prime Directive was more important than getting home. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/28 "2009-07-20T20:14:34Z")
Old man Potter in _It’s a Wonderful Life_ not only wasn’t punished but got to keep the eight grand. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/29 "2009-07-20T20:37:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not enabling ole broody. But Angel is not Angelus with something removed; Angelus is not a demon controlling Angelus’ body. _Angelus is part of Angel_. The impulses that made Angel the badassest badass among the vampires are part of Angel. > > I agree that it’s pointless to punish Angel for things he did as Angelus, but I’m not sure it’s unjust. Well, he shouldn’t be punished because of his bad impulses being exaggerated by a demon that controls his body. Take Drusilla, another vampire. She was a mentally ill religious girl, while her vampire self is a mentally ill killer. Would Drusilla, if she got her soul back, be responsible for the murders? ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/30 "2009-07-20T21:06:34Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Well, he shouldn’t be punished because of his bad impulses being exaggerated by a demon that controls his body. I think **Skald’s** point was that Liam was always a nasty little shit. When he got turned into a vampire he was free to act on his nasty impulses much more viciously as Angelus. So Angel has always had a mean streak, he just feels bad about it now. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/31 "2009-07-20T21:13:53Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Old man Potter in _It’s a Wonderful Life_ not only wasn’t punished but got to keep the eight grand. Well, I don’t think they ever figured out he took the money, and even if they did I’m sure he’d have an army of lawyers at his disposal. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/32 "2009-07-20T21:39:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Well, he shouldn’t be punished because of his bad impulses being exaggerated by a demon that controls his body. I think you’re misunderstanding me. LIAM is not responsible for the things Angelus did. But Angel is not Liam. Liam = the body + human soul Angelus = the body + demonic soul - human soul Angel = the body + demonic soul + human soul Both Angelus and Liam are aspects of Angel. The human soul gives Angel the desire & ability to control the evil impulses of the vampire, but they do not remove those impulses or the potential pleasure he can take in indulging them. Note that Angel, in his own series, sometimes says that he misses the clarity of Angelus, and that he actually enjoyed the murder dreams he received when one of his vampire proteges was wreaking havoc in LA. Also, I know it’s the official line of the Watcher’s Council that the character of a vampire is independent of the nature of person turned, but I don’t believe it. I mean, really, the Council (as opposed to their field agents) are mostly known for being incompetent liars. Note that VampWillow acts very much like Corrupt!Willow. Note that Spike–who, whatever his faults, is certainly better integrated as a person than Angel is–never acts like he and William are different people; they even write teh same sort of poetry. Note that both Angel and Angelus enjoy ballet and are talented artists. Note that HumanHarmony & VampHarmony are enough alike that Cordelia–who by this point in the story is no fool, and who can accurately deduce from very few clues who is and is not a vampire–does not realize that she has been turned. Angelus is not a separate person than Angel. He is an spect of him. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/33 "2009-07-20T21:50:47Z")
We can’t leave out Jack Bauer! He commits so many crimes it’s more or less impossible to keep track. Let’s start with multiple homicides, sometimes involving innocent parties who have literally nothing to do with his mission. Add numerous counts of serious physical assault (often unprovoked), misuse and misappropriation of state property and funds, breaking every rule in the book and a few more, intentionally breaking a terrorist out of jail via a plan that happened to include creating a prison riot during which some of the staff lost their lives, plus all manner of relatively minor crimes such as breakind and entering, robbing a bank and armed robbery of a gas station including hostages. Oh, nearly forgot… he once kidnapped a serving US President and put a loaded gun to his head. He has been sort of punished for a few of these things, for example by losing his job. But he has never actually been held to account for this trail of death, havoc and destruction. On a separate note, I thought the way the writers wrapped up The Shield was utterly brilliant. I won’t say too much because there may still be many who have yet to discover the joy of the series and its boxed sets. Suffice it to say that when you think what Vic and the Strike Team got up to, he got off fairly lightly. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/34 "2009-07-20T22:11:20Z")
> [@h.sapiens](#): > > As much as I enjoy watching him do his stuff, Dr. Gregory House, M.D. should have lost his medical license, or at least his job, dozens of times by now. Usually, Cuddy punishes him by making him work extra hours in the clinic. Where he has the opportunity to endanger even more patients. Didn’t they give some reason why he can’t be fired and why Cuddy etc. cover for him? Probably not a GOOD reason, but at least an acknowledgment that most people couldn’t get away with his antics. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/35 "2009-07-20T22:16:01Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I thought that was pretty ass-y of him, too. Though I guess a lot of the characters got away with stuff they shouldn’t have. And a lot of them died, too, as was the nature of the show. > > ETA: Actually, though, I think this is something I still wonder about. A lot of times, I’ll wonder, why was Tony so lenient with Richie over that? It was just so pointless. I think there are two ways to look at it: 1. The show needed a villain. Paulie, Pussy and Silvio were all likable and Tony himself had his own mental issues. In a way, I think the show writers needed a character that the viewers hated and that hatred had to sustain throughout the season, meaning Richie couldn’t be punished too early. 2. Then there is also the fact that Richie was closely related to Jackie Aprile Sr., Tony’s best friend. He was also fresh out of jail, so Tony might have seen the incident it as a damage from the prison days. Nevertheless, it was a pretty horrible deed and he got away far too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/36 "2009-07-20T22:48:10Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Speaking of Buffy: > > Willow turning evil in season 6. Now I’ll give her a pass for killing Warren, but she tried to kill the Scoobies and destroy the world. Nobody brings this up in a negative way in later episodes. Yet everybody gave Andrew shit about killing Jonathan, and he had the excuse of being influenced by the ultimate evil. Willow did her evil deeds out of her free will. I’m not saying Andrew did not deserve the shit he got, but it’s strange that Willow gets a pass for doing worse. I’d say it’s arguable whether Andrew was being controlled by The First Evil or if he was just weak willed and believed anything the First-as-Warren told him. The only one that seemed controlled was Spike and he had issues… what with having his soul put back in his body after a hundred years and then sleeping it off on top of the Hellmouth. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m one of those who thinks Xander lied about about summoning Sweet to save Dawn, and all the Scoobies quickly recognized it. Agreed. Did Xander ever even touch a spell book before or after that episode? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/37 "2009-07-20T23:01:01Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Agreed. Did Xander ever even touch a spell book before or after that episode? Off the top of my head, twice. Once, in a one-off gag, he tries reading something in faux-Latin from a book he pulled off the library’s shelf, and the book burst into flames. More seriously, he tried to case a spell to make himself more popular with the ladies, and was nearly torn apart by a mob of Xander-crazed groupies. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/38 "2009-07-20T23:04:08Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Most of the cast of _Battlestar Galactica_. On the other hand, there is that great courtroom scene where Lee points all of this out, getting Baltar off the hook by pointing out that the entire human race is suffering post traumatic shock syndrome, and can’t really be held responsible for its actions. Which, if you think about it, is setting up one hell of a clusterfuck of a judicial precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/39 "2009-07-20T23:06:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > More seriously, he tried to case a spell to make himself more popular with the ladies, and was nearly torn apart by a mob of Xander-crazed groupies. That was “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered” from season two. Xander didn’t cast that spell. He caught Amy doing witchy stuff and had her perform the spell on him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570/40 "2009-07-20T23:09:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That was “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered” from season two. Xander didn’t cast that spell. He caught Amy doing witchy stuff and had her perform the spell on him. Oh, right. So, just the one time then, as a gag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/characters-who-got-a-slap-on-the-wrist-but-deserved-much-more-spoilers-about-eureka-and-torchwood/503570.md?page=3)