Yes, I have. Never was interested in EMS at any level. Never had any First Aid beyond Boy Scouts. Over the last 40 years there have been numerous occasions where I was present when someone had a medical issue or was involved in an accident. I’ve held their hands, wiped their tears, applied pressure bandages and on two occasions performed CPR while 911 was activated.
Yes, it’s entirely possible that this particular EMT could have done nothing to assist medically, but from the several stories I’ve read, the EMT just could not be bothered to care!
Why not? It’s seems reasonable to assume that an emergency dispatcher will, at least occasionally, have to be able to talk the person on the phone through rendering some sort of aid – CPR, telling them to go find the glycerin pills, being able to ask the right questions to determine if the patient may be going into shock and being able to instruct how to treat for it until the ambulance gets there… and on and on.
I can’t speak to the differences between EMD and EMT, because I don’t know what they are, and what standards various states have (possibly in some states EMTs / EMDs have equivalent training, and in some states EMDs have a somewhat lower level of training?). But it makes complete sense for a dispatcher to HAVE emergency medical knowledge of SOME kind.
Oh. And it’s the NY Post. Not exactly high journalistic standards, there… “Treat a defendant?” They only have to help if the patient is being sued?
There is a difference to being in a regulated position with rules as to what you are allowed to do, and being a “civilian”.
In my last job, at work I was not allowed to resucitate children due to new government regulations specifying only qualified children’s nurses were allowed to do so.
However, any non nurse would have been OK to attempt to resucitate a child had they been there.
Barking- absolutely, but that is the crazy world we live in now.
She’s directly responsible for the death of a woman and her unborn baby. imho Hope she burns in Hades for what she did.
I understand she didn’t have her equipment. But she could have at least tried to help. Even untrained people come to the aid of stricken people. Humans are expected to show compassion for their fellow man. Thats what separates us from the animals.
Every refresher I did for CPR pointed out that if you are alone, you are not expected to do CPR longer than you are able to, and can’t be prosecuted for stopping when YOU choose to do so. When I was young and fit I could probably have done CPR for over 1/2 hour, but now 10 minutes would do ME in.
However, not a good idea to run off to catch a bus.
BTW, one of the first things they told us on orientation in Saudi was to never stop to resucitate a person outside the hospital, as if they died we would be guilty of causing their death, regardless of the facts.
Rubbish. People commit horrible attrocities on each other every day in every country.
Millions and millions were murdered by other humans last century, and we’re doing our best this century too.
Humans are just animals with an advanced brain, and the genes of a caveman.
No, asthma is directly responsible for the death of that woman and her baby. Whoever knew she was in trouble and didn’t call an ambulance is indirectly responsible–they’re the ones who didn’t do everything they could to help this woman. The EMTs did in fact do everything they could; with no oxygen mask or trach tube, no medications of any kind, and no ability to open someone’s airways with the power of their minds, the only aid they could render was to call 911. Well, I guess they could have checked to see if she had a rescue inhaler, but one presumes that if she did she would already have used it.
Not that rescue inhalers always help if it’s a bad enough attack. I have a family member with really bad asthma that seems to get worse as he gets older. He’s had really bad attacks and coded on or immediately after arrival at the ER twice. (Thank Og they live just a few minutes away from the hospital.) One of these days they’re not going to make it in time, and he’ll die. If DoctorJ and I happen to be with them when that happens…DoctorJ won’t have killed him. He won’t even have let the man die. He will have done everything in his power in a hopeless situation.
Is this woman an asshole? Sure. Burn-in-hell worthy? Nah.
You see human compassion all the time. All the people that rushed to help the Boston bombing victims. People improvising tourniquets from belts and shirts. The guy in the cowboy hat that helped the guy with both legs blown off. Thats humanity at its very best and most noble.
Dr King and the marchers at Selma Alabama peacefully crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge bridge as they are beaten. Nelson Mandela and Gandhi. Men that did the right thing no matter the personal cost. Humanity is capable of great acts of sacrifice and service. It’s also capable of great savagery and violence.
Everyone chooses how they want to live their life. I believe strongly in karma. You get back what you put out there. I try to step in and help whenever possible. It could be something mundane like feeding the neighbor’s cat or picking up groceries for an elderly neighbor that no longer can drive. I’ve taken first aid classes and got my life guard certification as a teenager. If I can help someone in an emergency then I will.
Sure, sure. But failure to be your best possible person is not a crime. The EMT did not neglect any duty recognized by law. Which is why the charges were dropped; the subject of this thread.
Yes, it was the “shrug” and “bus” comment meant to convey that you can’t simply decide to stop rendering aid for a frivolous reason or whim. If you’re unable to continue CPR, if the creek is rising and you can’t move the person, if a tornado is bearing down on you both…there’s lots of times when you do have to stop rendering aid if you’re following common sense and first aid guidelines about not putting yourself or additional people in danger to help someone.
And yeah, 10 minutes of CPR is looooooooooog when you don’t do compressions everyday. I just did ACLS, and our wicked mean teacher made us do one Mega-Code in real time. So that was probably a sloppy example. Let’s say (as this really did happen and I did really stop and render aid, back when I was just a nursing student and my partner a retired paramedic) a minivan flipped over in front of you on the interstate. You arrive on the scene to find a few adults staggering around, a couple sitting on the ground covered alarmingly in red sticky liquid (don’t worry, on assessment, it turns out it’s sauce from the Crock Pot they had in the back of the van) and a couple of kids, one still in his carseat and one toddling in circles wailing.
IF you stop, and IF you carefully scoop up the kiddo and deposit him in a sitting auntie’s lap and confirm she’s okay, and then IF you decide that one of the fellas looks a little too pale and is holding his neck and grimacing (oh, did I mention you don’t speak the language these people do?) so you have him lie down and hold his head firmly to keep it still while your partner calls EMS…you then realize that it’s really hot out here and you picked a bad place to kneel and that rock is really pokey and you’re really glad everyone appears to be okay (and how can that be with the minivan flipped onto its roof and isn’t modern vehicle safety amazing?) and you’re not sorry you stopped but your back is starting to ache, and if the ambulance doesn’t get here soon, you’re totally going to hit rush hour and that’s going to make you late for your dinner meeting, but if you let go this guy could end up paralyzed as the swelling of his spinal cord against what may (or may not be) a broken neck starts to impinge the nerve fibers.
Yes, this is stuff people think about while they’re maybe saving your life, folks. Like laws and sausage, probably best not to know…
So…what can’t you do? You can’t decide that you’re uncomfortable or inconvenienced and stop rendering aid. In for a penny, in for a pound, and you wait until EMS gets there and takes over. Which I did, of course. But now I keep a c-collar in my trunk.
(Never did get Grandma’s afghan back, either. Oh well…auntie and the toddler needed it more than we do.)
Yeah, that’s the difference between someone who is bleeding and someone who is having an asthma attack. You can actually help the bleeder before medical care arrives–you can apply pressure or improvise a tourniquet, and those measures can make an actual difference in the outcome of the case. Hell, if help is far enough away, you can even put in some sutures with a home sewing kit and improve the outcome. But with asthma, the only thing that will improve the outcome is to get more oxygen to their alveoli. That simply isn’t going to happen without some oxygen or some drugs, so if you don’t have those things the only true help you can give is to get them somewhere those things are available as quickly as possible.
