# Charging Women Less Than Men: Is This Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355 "2015-04-23T13:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/1 "2015-04-23T13:26:20Z")
[Women make less, so pay less at Pittsburgh shop](http://www.thestar.com/life/2015/04/21/women-make-less-so-they-pay-less-at-pittsburgh-shop.html) > [@](#): > > At a new pop-up shop in Pittsburgh, everything comes with two price tags — one for women, and another for men. > > “Women earn 76 per cent of what men earn, and in the shop they pay 76 per cent of the price,” explained Elana Schlenker, a local graphic designer and publisher who opened the store at the beginning of April. > > The idea behind the shop, dubbed 76\<100, is to reflect the gender wage gap in Pennsylvania, the difference in earnings between men and women. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/2 "2015-04-23T13:32:43Z")
Men are probably not a protected class. It’s going to depend on how gender discrimination laws are written. If they are in neutral language, so there can be no “gender” discrimination, it might be illegal, but if gender discrimination laws simply rely on women being a protected class, then it’s probably legal. I anticipate this thread getting moved to IMHO, unless a civil attorney from PA jumps in. Although, it may be that there is no answer until somebody sues and the case clears the courts. Which may be what the owner wants anyway, because this is clearly a protest, and not a real attempt to close the wage inequity. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/3 "2015-04-23T13:45:42Z")
Check at your dry cleaner, how much to clean your shirt vs how much to clean your wife’s shirt. Been that way an awful long time, so I’m doubting it’s illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/4 "2015-04-23T13:47:33Z")
Women’s shirts are apparently different than men’s shirts. If a man submits a woman’s shirt he gets charged the same as a woman, and so on. Here it’s the exact same thing being sold and the price differential is entirely based on who the purchaser is. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why_Bother)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/5 "2015-04-23T13:48:28Z")
I was under the impression that the 76 - 100 pay gap thing was…well, in a word, bullshit. Isn’t nearly all of it accounted for by differing life choices men and women make? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/6 "2015-04-23T13:55:39Z")
Meh, I’d just let my wife buy things for me there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/7 "2015-04-23T14:10:24Z")
Sounds like there’s an arbitrage opportunity here with a very nice spread. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/8 "2015-04-23T14:12:04Z")
Isn’t this store owner doing the exact same thing? Or is she going to pay the artists the 100% price out of her own pocket? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/9 "2015-04-23T14:19:19Z")
Because there is nothing better for sexual equality than to incentivise women to do all the shopping. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/10 "2015-04-23T14:38:13Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Men are probably not a protected class. It’s going to depend on how gender discrimination laws are written. If they are in neutral language, so there can be no “gender” discrimination, it might be illegal, but if gender discrimination laws simply rely on women being a protected class, then it’s probably legal. > > I anticipate this thread getting moved to IMHO, unless a civil attorney from PA jumps in. > > Although, it may be that there is no answer until somebody sues and the case clears the courts. Which may be what the owner wants anyway, because this is clearly a protest, and not a real attempt to close the wage inequity. You’re supposed to wait until _after_ the thread is moved to throw out WAGs. Men are certainly a protected class. However, gender discrimination laws (including Pennsylvania’s and the applicable federal law) typically apply only to employers and public accommodations. That’s why ladies’ night at the bar is okay, while ladies’ night at the hotel would not be (to give one example.) In some jurisdictions, where gender discrimination laws extend beyond public accommodations (such as New Mexico), this would probably not be okay. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/11 "2015-04-23T14:51:10Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Men are probably not a protected class. It’s going to depend on how gender discrimination laws are written. If they are in neutral language, so there can be no “gender” discrimination, it might be illegal, but if gender discrimination laws simply rely on women being a protected class, then it’s probably legal. > > I anticipate this thread getting moved to IMHO, unless a civil attorney from PA jumps in. > > Although, it may be that there is no answer until somebody sues and the case clears the courts. Which may be what the owner wants anyway, because this is clearly a protest, and not a real attempt to close the wage inequity. Men are certainly fall into a protected class, you can not discriminate based on gender under federal law. It looks pretty clear to me she would be in violation of the law. However she’s making a protest and can probably do this for some time before an injured party decides to sue and could be years before anything comes of that. She can break the law as long as nobody cares that she’s doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/12 "2015-04-23T14:52:13Z")
What law is she in violation of? ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/13 "2015-04-23T14:53:09Z")
I seem to remember a long time ago (1990s?) that bars where I lived were stopping Ladies’ Nights because of some guy’s lawsuit. I also seem to remember in NYC in the early 2000s that some politician took up the dry cleaner thing as a cause and got it made illegal to charge more for a blouse than for a shirt (assuming both were the same fabric, I think). I’ll try to come up with a more nebulous, less helpful post next time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/14 "2015-04-23T14:54:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > However, gender discrimination laws (including Pennsylvania’s and the applicable federal law) typically apply only to employers and public accommodations. That’s why ladies’ night at the bar is okay, while ladies’ night at the hotel would not be (to give one example.) This appears to be incorrect. Apparently Ladies Night at the bar is not OK in Pennsylvania. And where it is OK, it seems to be mainly justified by the notion that encouraging women to attend is a legitimate business reason, rather that the notion that gender discrimination laws don’t apply altogether. At least according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies'_night), that is. (Though perhaps a bar is also an accomodation?) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/15 "2015-04-23T14:56:15Z")
Lawsuits against Ladies’ Night discounts have prevailed under state anti-discrimination statutes in California and Colorado, and I think a few other states (NJ, maybe) have enacted explicit prohibitions. At least one case bringing a challenge under the equal protection clause of the Constitution was rejected by a federal court. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/16 "2015-04-23T14:56:50Z")
Stepping aside from the main topic for a second, can somebody explain to me what a pop-up shop is? I’ve never heard the term before. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/17 "2015-04-23T15:09:00Z")
A pop-up somethingorother is something that’s there for a short time. You can have pop up parks too, or pop up playgrounds. In those cases, it can be a way of cheaply testing out a concept (would it be a good idea to put a serious playground here? Well, lets buy a bunch of cheapo slides and stick 'em there for a month, see if any kids come out of the woodwork). In the case of shops it can be a marketing strategy, like having a sale on - creates urgency. Better buy now, the shop might not be there tomorrow. Or a ‘toe in the water’, or something with a non-commercial point to it (as in the current case). Think of it like a slightly more substantial market stall. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/18 "2015-04-23T15:09:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Stepping aside from the main topic for a second, can somebody explain to me what a pop-up shop is? I’ve never heard the term before. It is a store that opens for a short time with merchandise then closes when it is all sold. It is a newish trend. > **[Pop-up retail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop-up_retail)** > > Pop-up retail, also known as pop-up store (pop-up shop in the UK, Australia and Ireland) or flash retailing, is a trend of opening short-term sales spaces that last for days to weeks before closing down, often to catch on to a fad or scheduled event. > The modern trend of pop-up retail started in Los Angeles in the late 1990s, and went on to become used internationally, being particularly popular in the United States, Canada, United Kingdom and Australia. Pop-up retail was an increasing factor dur... ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/19 "2015-04-23T15:18:05Z")
In California it is illegal for a dry cleaner to charge more for women’s clothing. Most dry cleaners here have a posted sign saying that they are not allowed to have gender-based pricing. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/20 "2015-04-23T15:20:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Stepping aside from the main topic for a second, can somebody explain to me what a pop-up shop is? I’ve never heard the term before. Basically a store that shows up in an empty retail space for a few weeks at a time and then goes away. It’s the latest marketing tripe brought to you by hipster douchebags with waxed mustaches. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355.md?page=2)