# Charging Women Less Than Men: Is This Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355 "2015-04-23T13:26:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/21 "2015-04-23T15:21:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > This appears to be incorrect. Apparently Ladies Night at the bar is not OK in Pennsylvania. And where it is OK, it seems to be mainly justified by the notion that encouraging women to attend is a legitimate business reason, rather that the notion that gender discrimination laws don’t apply altogether. > > At least according to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies'_night), that is. > > (Though perhaps a bar is also an accomodation?) They are. Pennsylvania’s gender discrimination law closely tracks those of other states, and prohibits sex discrimination only against patrons of… > [@](#): > > …inns, taverns, roadhouses, hotels, motels, whether conducted for the entertainment of transient guests or for the accommodation of those seeking health, recreation or rest, or restaurants or eating houses, or any place where food is sold for consumption on the premises, buffets, saloons, barrooms or any store, park or enclosure where spirituous or malt liquors are sold, ice cream parlors, confectioneries, soda fountains and all stores where ice cream, ice and fruit preparations or their derivatives, or where beverages of any kind are retailed for consumption on the premises, drug stores, dispensaries, clinics, hospitals, bathhouses, swimming pools, barber shops, beauty parlors, retail stores and establishments, theaters, motion picture houses, airdromes, roof gardens, music halls, race courses, skating rinks, amusement and recreation parks, fairs, bowling alleys, gymnasiums, shooting galleries, billiard and pool parlors, public libraries, kindergartens, primary and secondary schools, high schools, academies, colleges and universities, extension courses and all educational institutions under the supervision of this Commonwealth, nonsectarian cemeteries, garages and all public conveyances operated on land or water or in the air as well as the stations, terminals and airports thereof, financial institutions and all Commonwealth facilities and services, including such facilities and services of all political subdivisions thereof, but shall not include any accommodations which are in their nature distinctly private. The violator cited in the Wikipedia article was a bar that was doing business as a restaurant in order to get a cheaper liquor license. In either case it would likely have qualified. A clothing store, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/22 "2015-04-23T15:24:20Z")
Hairdressers tend to charge men less and it isn’t, apparently, a case of charging more to deal with LONG hair. As a longhaired guy I’ve always resented it, feeling that in practice it means they won’t be bothering to do as good a job as they would with a woman with long hair who would be paying them more. Anyway, my point being the same point others have made, that price differentials are all over the place already. I’m against it, but it’s not unique to the OP’s situation. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/23 "2015-04-23T15:27:07Z")
It article in the OP is about a consignment store, selling items produced by women. Who will receive 76% now too. “Wait, you’re cutting our profits?” “Your crappy little trinkets weren’t going to sell anyway. This way we’ll generate foot traffic. Volume, honey, volume.” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/24 "2015-04-23T15:31:29Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > It article in the OP is about a consignment store, selling items produced by women. Who will receive 76% now too. > > “Wait, you’re cutting our profits?” > > “Your crappy little trinkets weren’t going to sell anyway. This way we’ll generate foot traffic. Volume, honey, volume.” No, you are looking at it wrong. The price being charged to women is the market price. When they sell to men, they get a 31.5% mark-up! ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/25 "2015-04-23T15:32:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > They are. Pennsylvania’s gender discrimination law closely tracks those of other states, and prohibits sex discrimination only against patrons of… > > The violator cited in the Wikipedia article was a bar that was doing business as a restaurant in order to get a cheaper liquor license. In either case it would likely have qualified. A clothing store, not so much. A clothing store would fall under “retail stores and establishments”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/26 "2015-04-23T15:49:05Z")
Huh. I stand properly corrected. I only skimmed it and read that as only referring to those where beverages are sold for consumption on the premises. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/27 "2015-04-23T18:06:56Z")
“The idea behind the shop, dubbed 76\<100…” Between this and Flonase 6\>1, maybe the memories of a few people will be refreshed in terms of which way the greater than/less than sign goes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SimonMoon5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@SimonMoon5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SimonMoon5)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/28 "2015-04-23T18:40:54Z")
All I can think about is: what about borderline cases? If someone is transgender, what price would they pay? If they’re transitioning, does it matter which gender they’re transitioning into? Or a simpler case, if a man cross-dresses successfully, buys goods at 76% of the price, and then is discovered to be male, could he be sued for something? If men try cross-dressing a lot to try to trick the cashiers, will people end up having to “prove” that they are the correct gender? Or is it up to the cashier to judge? If a cashier sees a manly woman and thinks she’s a man and charges her the wrong price… … eh, I’m bored with this now. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/29 "2015-04-23T20:08:49Z")
[QUOTE =SimonMoon5;18311407] All I can think about is: what about borderline cases? If someone is transgender, what price would they pay? If they’re transitioning, does it matter which gender they’re transitioning into? Or a simpler case, if a man cross-dresses successfully, buys goods at 76% of the price, and then is discovered to be male, could he be sued for something? If men try cross-dressing a lot to try to trick the cashiers, will people end up having to “prove” that they are the correct gender? Or is it up to the cashier to judge? If a cashier sees a manly woman and thinks she’s a man and charges her the wrong price… [/QUOTE] Barring a statute that makes gender identity a protected class, all but the second question would be a matter of store policy. Just saying, dressing like, or presenting yourself as a certain gender does not obligate anybody else to accept that statement. It’s the same as prayer in schools, and forcing children to say the pledge of allegiance; both of which have been ruled unconstitutional. In answer to the second question, such a person could be charged the same as if they tried to swap price tags in any other store. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/30 "2015-04-23T20:27:51Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > No, you are looking at it wrong. The price being charged to women is the market price. When they sell to men, they get a 31.5% mark-up! Yes, it’s this. Plus protest/publicity. They aren’t really expecting to sell to men. Sounds like a nice way to get the (female) customer on your side. (insert female:math joke here) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/31 "2015-04-23T21:37:05Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Basically a store that shows up in an empty retail space for a few weeks at a time and then goes away. It’s the latest marketing tripe brought to you by hipster douchebags with waxed mustaches. You’re in Brooklyn and hate hipsters? Have you thought about relocating? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/32 "2015-04-23T22:55:48Z")
Asian-Americans earn more per capita than African-Americans, in the USA. Do you think a “Asians must pay more than black people” store policy would fly? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/33 "2015-04-23T22:58:22Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Men are probably not a protected class. Gender-discrimination protection means both genders. It doesn’t mean protection for women only. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/34 "2015-04-23T23:14:20Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > I was under the impression that the 76 - 100 pay gap thing was…well, in a word, bullshit. Isn’t nearly all of it accounted for by differing life choices men and women make? Yes, it is. However, it’s a topic that’s as incendiary as abortion or gun control, so I keep my mouth shut about it unless I’m talking about it with someone who I know agrees with me. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/35 "2015-04-23T23:21:30Z")
Does this mean that Girl’s High in Philadelphia is operating illegally? Here is how Wiki describes it: > [@](#): > > The Philadelphia High School for Girls, also known as Girls’ High, is a public university-preparatory magnet high school for girls in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States. As its name suggests, the school’s enrollment is all female. There used to be a corresponding Boy’s school, called Central High, also public, but it was made coed after a lawsuit. I am a graduate of Central (202nd class), which is located two blocks away. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/36 "2015-04-23T23:27:08Z")
Also, this store policy doesn’t reflect individual circumstances. Wouldn’t a male janitor earning minimum wage pay more, for a store product, than a female brain surgeon earning $500,000 a year? ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/37 "2015-04-24T01:22:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Women’s shirts are apparently different than men’s shirts. Back in the early 1990s, I got that excuse from my former dry-cleaner. He told me that women’s shirts are smaller than men’s, and require “smaller” machinery. I pointed out that my boyfriend’s shirt and my shirt were the same size (I’m 5’9" and weighed about 140# at the time), and that I took a larger size than the smallest man’s dress shirt size. Both were plain cotton dress shirts (I don’t do ruffles or pin-tucks or any of that froofraw). So other than the side the buttons are on, how were they different again? > [@](#): > > If a man submits a woman’s shirt he gets charged the same as a woman, and so on. Depends. More than once, my boyfriend dropped off our identical shirts and got the $.99 price for all of them. I got the $2.49 price. I guess the employee didn’t think a man would drop off his girlfriend’s shirts. :mad: I’m glad I don’t have to wear dress shirts to work anymore. Long live IT dress codes (not quite business casual…really just casual), and the death of the suit in IT! ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/38 "2015-04-24T01:46:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Asian-Americans earn more per capita than African-Americans, in the USA. Do you think a “Asians must pay more than black people” store policy would fly? I’d wager heavy money not as well as “whites pay more than blacks” would,. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/39 "2015-04-24T02:06:30Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > I was under the impression that the 76 - 100 pay gap thing was…well, in a word, bullshit. Isn’t nearly all of it accounted for by differing life choices men and women make? It’s kind of a chicken-and-egg thing. When a family has to take a career hit, it’s most likely the lower earner who is going to take the brunt. We don’t know what “life choices” women would make if they had equal career prospects. We do know that when workplaces became open to women, women certainly didn’t stay away. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355/40 "2015-04-24T03:35:00Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > You’re in Brooklyn and hate hipsters? Have you thought about relocating? Why should I move? They’re the ones who suck! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charging-women-less-than-men-is-this-legal/718355.md?page=3)