# chariots of the gods **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029 "2010-02-15T03:11:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/81 "2010-02-18T12:36:29Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Building a sand and rubble ramp along the outside edge of the pyramid - basically extending the pyramid by a few dozen feet outward to make a ramp that wraps around the pyramid - this is significantly less work and less volume than building a Masada-style straight ramp across the desert floor. It has the added bonus that you can face the pyramid in limestone wrking your way down as you remove the ramp. I guess the question is, it’s still a decent volume of sand - any indication where it went? Egypt is in a desert. Where the sand went is not a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/82 "2010-02-18T15:58:01Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Egypt is in a desert. Where the sand went is not a mystery. I would imagine the ramp was built with a combination of sand and rubble - broken rock, gravel - otherwise the sand is probably not too solid once it dries. So did the rubble end up as gravel under footings and pavement and such? I guess 4000 years later it’s a bit hard to tell but there might be some tell-tale signs? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/83 "2010-02-18T16:07:37Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I would imagine the ramp was built with a combination of sand and rubble - broken rock, gravel - otherwise the sand is probably not too solid once it dries. So did the rubble end up as gravel under footings and pavement and such? I guess 4000 years later it’s a bit hard to tell but there might be some tell-tale signs? Pyramids were tributes to their god-kings. They were designed to be as beautiful and impressive as possible. Why would they leave signs of ramps or other building or construction activity? The area around the pyramids were made as clean as the area around a modern building after it has been erected. And that would be before 5000 years of blowing sand, strong enough to scour the stone itself. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/84 "2010-02-18T18:44:16Z")
> [@Roadfood](#): > > Except that it has recently been shown that the ramps are there, INSIDE the pyramid itself. They built the ramps as they went, stacking the blocks outside of the ramp. [Jean-Pierre Houdin](http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.com/ngcblogs/inside-ngc/2008/11/unlocking-the-great-pyramid---part-1.html) toiled for years on the puzzle of the ramps before coming up with that solution (which, to me, seems “obvious” with the benefit of hindsight). Maybe not ‘shown’ but I saw a special on his theories and they seemed very credible. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/85 "2010-02-19T05:02:53Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Maybe not ‘shown’ but I saw a special on his theories and they seemed very credible. A nice clip of the National Geographic special dealing with the idea of Jean-Pierre Houdin is here: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lasCXujNPfs/maxresdefault.jpg "Great Pyramid Mystery Solved? | National Geographic") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lasCXujNPfs) The surprising bit of evidence: In the 1980’s a high tech survey of the great pyramid was made by the French, Jean-Pierre found no evidence in it of any internal ramp, but 15 years later a member of the French team contacted Jean-Pierre and showed him a diagram of an internal structure that eerily matched the models proposed by him. It turned that because the french team could not explain what that pattern was in the density diagrams of the pyramid, they did not publish it. :smack: > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. > [@](#): > > Next Step: Confirmation > > The 1986 image, the notch room, and other evidence may make Houdin’s theory plausible, but the case is far from closed. > > “As with all archaeological theories, the proof is in the pudding, and many logical and compelling theories have fallen by the wayside under the weight of hard evidence,” said the University of Pennsylvania’s Wegner. > > But “verification of the proposed internal spiral ramp would be a remarkable and groundbreaking discovery,” Wegner added. > > Houdin believes that verification might soon be possible. > > He suggests that an infrared camera—positioned about 150 feet (46 meters) from the pyramid—could potentially record subtle differences in interior materials and temperatures. Those variations could reveal clear-cut “phantoms” of the internal ramp. > > “What we need is the authorization, by the Egyptian authorities, to stay around for 18 hours, close to the pyramid, with a cooled infrared camera based on an SUV and to take images of three [pyramid] faces every hour during this period,” Houdin said. > > “A green light from Cairo and the Great Pyramid mystery is over.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/86 "2010-02-19T05:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The History Channel will show any piece of crap that they can dig up. They don’t give any thought to whether it’s remotely plausible. Yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/87 "2010-02-19T09:12:33Z")
Just to highlight the nature of the problem here: One of the UK Freeview digital channels - ‘Quest’ showed a programme last night called ‘The Truth About Crop Circles’ - during which they showed an amateur video supposedly showing crop circles in the process of being formed with orbs of light spinning and dancing overhead - apparently this video was quite a sensation amongst the crop circle mystery community. But the guy who first released the video upon the world has subsequently confessed that he faked the footage, and furthermore, he supported this confession with an informal documentary video actually showing in considerable detail - him originally editing the footage to create the effect, and discussing the strategy of the hoax. So you’d think that anyone who had first accepted the hoax video would shrug and say “OK, you really got us with this one” (and some people probably did admit this), but the spokesman they interviewed chose to deny the validity of the hoaxer’s confession, and insist that the original video must have been real. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/88 "2010-02-19T15:18:24Z")
IIRC, the Egyptians at the time did not have the arch, their construction was post-and-lintel. So, a ramp would have to be built of crosspieces wide enough to span the entire “tunnel”, since we assume more than one 360 turn. How wide? At least 10 feet? That’s a lot of 10-foot-by2foot-by-2foot solid beams, rather than the usual little blocks. It’s one thing to build the short jaunt halfway across the pyramid that way - how wide is the entrace tunnel to the main chamber? It’s a lot more work to do so all the way up, with enough clearance for the hauling teams… Plus now they have to be able to haul up those floor beams too, not just small blocks. How big across was that corner room? ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029/89 "2010-02-19T21:31:53Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IIRC, the Egyptians at the time did not have the arch, their construction was post-and-lintel. So, a ramp would have to be built of crosspieces wide enough to span the entire “tunnel”, since we assume more than one 360 turn. Standard old "corbelled “arch”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/chariots-of-the-gods/529029.md?page=4)