# Charity bribes drug addicts to sterilise themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489 "2010-10-17T22:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/61 "2010-10-19T03:08:07Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Can no one have a well meaning desire to see kids not born into horrible situations? I trust that most people, and everyone in the thread, have this desire in some form. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > To cast racist or classist aspersions on anyone who actively tries to reduce that harm is… sort of a cop out. You’re invoking slippery slopes and assume that anyone trying to accomplish this goal must have some racist or classist motivation. But why? Creating a kid into a horrible situation is among the most evil things you can do - and the fact that we’re totally unwilling to address this as a society, and that it’s almost a thought crime to suggest that anyone - even the most ill prepared or evil people - not have kids - is weird to me. Why is having your own kids so ridiculously important that we can’t even discuss whether or not it’s a good thing if obviously unfit people do it? It’s a matter of _who_ is judged unfit, on what basis, by whom, and how the matter is approached in practice. Nobody is saying that addicts should have kids. We’re talking about whether _ever being an addict_ renders a person subhuman “scum,” _forever_ barred from a conventionally-assumed freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/62 "2010-10-19T03:15:47Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/63 "2010-10-19T03:27:45Z")
I judge them unfit on the basis that they are _drug addicts_, and nobody’s talking about “barring” them from anything, we’re talking about _bribing_ them to sterlize themselves. If that means they may not be able to undo the procedure if they ever get cleaned up, I personally don’t give the slightest shit. Anything that prevents more babies from being born into that hell is worth the trade-off. Do you really think a recovering addict not being able to have a baby (because of a decison freely made themselves) is a worse alternative than a baby being left alone in an apartment to starve while the mother goes out to suck dick for rock? What the fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/64 "2010-10-19T03:37:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Do you really think a recovering addict not being able to have a baby (because of a decison freely made themselves) is a worse alternative than a baby being left alone in an apartment to starve while the mother goes out to suck dick for rock? What the fuck? Of course not, and nobody does, so stop repeating this bullshit strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/65 "2010-10-19T03:46:10Z")
It’s not a strawman, it’s the issue at hand. If bribing addicts to get sterilized prevents a single crack baby being born, isn’t it worth that crackhead not being able to have a baby in some hypothetical cleaned up future? I mean seriously, why should anyone at all care if _anybody_ (not just addicts) wants to sterilize themselves. the world is overpopulated anyway, and there are cats who need homes. I’m not laying awake at night worrying about former crackheads (or anybody else, for that matter) not being able to get their vasectomies reversed. I’m not somebody who sees infertility as being any great tragedy. So they can’t make a baby. Big deal It’s not like anybody NEEDS a baby, they just WANT one. I want a Porsche, but no one’s crying for me about it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/66 "2010-10-19T04:23:43Z")
Why not bribe the addicts to get a shot of Depo Provera or an IUD? It seems to me that you should try the least invasive policy options first. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/67 "2010-10-19T15:06:09Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > In one of the oddest major [news stories](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11545519) I’ve seen in a while, U.S. charity Project Prevention is offering British drug addicts £200 (about $320) not to have children, in order to prevent damage to children. > > Charities over here have criticised the move, calling it exploitative and devious, and personally I can’t see a registered charity lasting too long if its donors realise that their cash is going straight into the back pockets of addicts, and the whole sterilisation thing has rather unfortunate implications. On the other hand, it has the noble goal of protecting children, arguable an ends which justifies the means. I imagine the Dope will have some interesting comments on this; what say you? Distasteful exploitation, or novel solution to a very real problem? Bio of a Space Tyrant by Piers Anthony. The space tyrant is faced with huge population growth in the poor community and decides that he is going to give out free food infused with chemical birth control. It addresses the population and poverty problem. I’d feel better about this if the procedures were reversible. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/68 "2010-10-19T15:25:05Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > For those calling this abominable, squicky, etc. - would you be bothered if a group advertised free sterilization procedures for drug addicts? Um, no. Because that would be offering them sterilization, giving them no reason to take them up on it unless they want to be sterilized. You can’t possibly not understand that’s a very different thing than offering them a financial incentive to be sterilized. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/69 "2010-10-19T15:27:28Z")
What’s the difference, other than the latter would be more effective? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/70 "2010-10-19T15:29:13Z")
Because one is offering a service, and the other is offering a bribe. Decent people should have a problem with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/71 "2010-10-19T15:34:17Z")
As a taxpayer, I think our governments should finance this program. The cost of looking after a drug/alcohol gestation compromised child/individual in our countries that have some form of universal health care must be several orders of magnitude above $320. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/72 "2010-10-19T15:36:44Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Because one is offering a service, and the other is offering a bribe. Decent people should have a problem with the latter. Do you have a problem with tax incentives ? With incentives? What’s the difference between an incentive and a bribe ? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/73 "2010-10-19T15:39:46Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Because one is offering a service, and the other is offering a bribe. Decent people should have a problem with the latter. Why? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/74 "2010-10-19T15:42:51Z")
The difference between an incentive and a bribe is that we offer incentives for people to do what they should, and offer bribes for them to let us do what we shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/75 "2010-10-19T15:47:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Because one is offering a service, and the other is offering a bribe. Decent people should have a problem with the latter. Eh, maybe. But I think it’s rather a clever rubric. This group is self selecting. It’s the people who are the most short-sighted, unable to delay gratification and truly caught in the trap of their addiction that will take the offer. Or at least, that’s the charge of the people against this, right? That they’re so caught up in their addiction and ready to grab the money because they couldn’t possibly think to themselves that they might want children in the future more than they want a couple hundred bucks now, right? Well, okay. That’s \*exactly \*the sort of people that shouldn’t be having kids. I’d even argue that that’s exactly the population that won’t make great parents, even if they \*do \*later manage to clean themselves up and straighten out. I’m fairly confident that the tales in this thread about great parents who are former addicts are not talking about the people who would have taken this offer, addicted or no. I’m not assuming all, or even most, addicts would take the offer. Just the most damaged ones with the least impulse control and inability to plan long term…which is as good a test for parenthood as any we’ve got now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/76 "2010-10-19T15:50:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The difference between an incentive and a bribe is that we offer incentives for people to do what they should, and offer bribes for them to let us do what we shouldn’t. Crack addicts shouldn’t be voluntarily sterilized ? or We shouldn’t make voluntary sterilization available to crack addicts ? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/77 "2010-10-19T15:51:41Z")
We should absolutely make voluntary sterilization available to crack addicts. If it’s truly voluntary, we won’t have to pay them. That’s what _voluntary_ means. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/78 "2010-10-19T15:52:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > The difference between an incentive and a bribe is that we offer incentives for people to do what they should, and offer bribes for them to let us do what we shouldn’t. If you really want to be pedantic about the terminology, then this idea doesn’t fit the definition of a bribe. It’s just an incentive. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/79 "2010-10-19T15:54:11Z")
It would be an incentive to people who are well enough off that $300 isn’t a big deal. To people for whom $300 IS a big deal, it’s a bribe. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489/80 "2010-10-19T15:59:54Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It would be an incentive to people who are well enough off that $300 isn’t a big deal. To people for whom $300 IS a big deal, it’s a bribe. So you would be okay with $30 ? Or limiting the program to middle class drug addicts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-bribes-drug-addicts-to-sterilise-themselves/557489.md?page=5)