# "Charity meetings" in The Hunting of the Snark **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2025, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813 "2025-05-03T05:48:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/1 "2025-05-03T05:48:20Z")
In Lewis Carroll’s poem _The Hunting of the Snark_, in the fifth fit, there is a description of various absurd characteristics of the Jubjub bird. One of them is _And in charity-meetings it stands at the door,_ _And collects – though it does not subscribe._ I’m not sure I understand a single word of this. Google seems to think that a “charity meeting” is a meeting of the board of directors of a charitable organization, but I don’t think that’s what Carroll means here. I guess it’s some kind of event for collecting contributions to charity? I would then tentatively guess that “collects” refers to taking people’s contributions. But what is “subscribes”? Is that making a promise to donate? But if people are just making promises at this meeting rather than actually handing over cash, then what is being “collected”? And does “stands by the door” have some particular significance, or is that just an incidental description to fit the meter? Can anyone shed any light on this verse? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/2 "2025-05-03T06:03:12Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > But what is “subscribes”? Is that making a promise to donate? Yes, “subscribe” is an old-timey way of saying “donate”. See definition 5: > **[subscribe - Wiktionary, the free dictionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subscribe)** 5. ([intransitive](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary#intransitive)) To [contribute](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/contribute#English) or [promise](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/promise#English) to contribute money to a common fund. quotations ▼ I would interpret the line as saying it collects money for charity (at some sort of public meeting) and keeps the money for itself. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/3 "2025-05-03T06:41:43Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > And does “stands by the door” have some particular significance, or is that just an incidental description to fit the meter? Bit of both. It conjures up the image of a fundraising event with people on the door to collect donations rather than passing a tray or box around. And of course being near the door makes it easier to abscond with what you’ve collected (especially if you’re a bird). ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/4 "2025-05-03T07:19:57Z")
Additional 19th century usage of subscribe that fits Carroll’s verse: - Does not itself accept or believe, eg 'I don’t subscribe to your idea" - Is not a member of the organisation (analogous to card-carrying or badge-carrying) that is running the charity event, and so is unusual in doing a job typically done by one of the members or office-holders. Charity meeting is a common-enough phrase. In Australia it was commonly used for horse races where profits or a part of the take were promised to charity. In the context of Carroll’s poem, it could refer to an entry fee forming the charitable contribution paid at the door, or there being a subscription through promises of money from the attendees. Or both. I’m surprised that the scenario seems foreign - is this another common thing from my life that is now baffling ancient history? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/5 "2025-05-03T15:16:09Z")
I would take “subscribe” in this context to mean either a promise to contribute on a regular basis, or else to be a member, which probably also includes a regular contribution. > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > being near the door makes it easier to abscond with what you’ve collected I don’t see any indication in the quoted part that the bird is running away with proceeds. It seems more to highlight the hypocrisy of collecting money for a cause from other people while not contributing oneself. Isn’t “Jub-jub” what Patty and Selma called their pet iguana or lizard or whatever it was? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/6 "2025-05-03T15:41:39Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Isn’t “Jub-jub” what Patty and Selma called their pet iguana or lizard or whatever it was? Yes, it was. Probably no connection, but the name might have been inspired by Carroll’s jubjub bird. > [@](#): > > The name Jub-Jub was coined by then-writer [Conan O’Brien](https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Conan_O%27Brien). He often said nonsensical things around the office for no apparent reason, one of which was “Jub-Jub.” > > “Jub-Jub” may also be a reference to the poem “Jabberwocky” by Lewis Carroll, in which the narrator warns his son to “Beware the Jubjub bird.” Source: [Jub-Jub Bouvier | Simpsons Wiki | Fandom](https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Jub-Jub_Bouvier) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/7 "2025-05-03T17:24:17Z")
When I do a search on this, one source says that it’s particularly a criticism to the Banker. The crew that comes to land consists of six people - the Bellman, the Boots, the Barrister, the Broker, the Billiard-marker, and the Banker. It says that the Banker took care of all the money while taking a huge fee for taking care of it. There is also a Beaver, who doesn’t come to land with the rest of the crew. The poem suggests that the Banker wants to keep as much of the money as possible. He is eventually killed by the Bandersnatch, it appears. It’s suggested that the Banker is like the Jub-Jub in collecting money for a group that he doesn’t contribute to. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/8 "2025-05-03T19:21:02Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > I’m surprised that the scenario seems foreign - is this another common thing from my life that is now baffling ancient history? Yes. Sorry. But your brocade gaiter-spats do go quite well with those four-bone under-bustle bloomers… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/9 "2025-05-03T19:35:48Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I would interpret the line as saying it collects money for charity (at some sort of public meeting) and keeps the money for itself. Or it collects but does not donate. In other words, it doesnt walk the walk. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I don’t see any indication in the quoted part that the bird is running away with proceeds. It seems more to highlight the hypocrisy of collecting money for a cause from other people while not contributing oneself. That’s the way I read it. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The name Jub-Jub was coined by then-writer [Conan O’Brien] Yeah, about a century after it was actually coined. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/10 "2025-05-03T20:25:36Z")
This is correct. It’s associating itself with charitable objects and implying its dedication to the cause by being one of the people who collects donations from meeting attendees, but it’s not actually dipping into its own pocket to support the charity. LOL at the rather sensationalist modern interpretation of outright embezzling the donated funds, though! What’s being made fun of here is a well-known Victorian version of “slacktivism”, not full-on criminality. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2025, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/11 "2025-05-03T20:51:53Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But your brocade gaiter-spats do go quite well with those four-bone under-bustle bloomers… They’ll come back, and who’ll be hot then? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/12 "2025-05-05T07:04:49Z")
I’d guess you could be boiling under that lot. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charity-meetings-in-the-hunting-of-the-snark/1017813/13 "2025-05-07T07:04:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > version of “slacktivism”, > A kind and gentle heart he had, > To comfort friends and foes; > The naked every day he clad, > When he put on his clothes.