# Charles Barkley's Gambling Debt **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762 "2008-06-30T12:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/1 "2008-06-30T12:15:07Z")
I see in the papers that Charles Barkley paid a $400,000 gambling debit as he was threatened with legal action. I thought gambling debits and debits for illegal transaction (like prostitution) were not enforceable. Obviously I am wrong. Is this a recent change? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/2 "2008-06-30T12:26:42Z")
Gambling is legal in Las Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/3 "2008-06-30T12:47:03Z")
So a legal gambling debt is enforceable? {Johnny Carson/}I did not know that. {/JC} ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/4 "2008-06-30T13:21:04Z")
Well there is enforement and there is [ENFORCEMENT](http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080315_Not_The_Sopranos__but_alleged_mob_enforcer_caught_on_tape.html) . ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/5 "2008-06-30T14:05:01Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] So a legal gambling debt is enforceable? [/QUOTE] How could any casino possibly make money if you could just walk off the premises and not pay your debt? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/6 "2008-06-30T14:33:40Z")
The idea is if a gambling debt is unenforceable, nobody will lend money for the purpose of gambling. All gambling would have to be done for cash. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/7 "2008-06-30T14:57:17Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] The idea is if a gambling debt is unenforceable, nobody will lend money for the purpose of gambling. All gambling would have to be done for cash. [/QUOTE] Well, sure, but casinos make buckets of cash by lending money to players. Especially if they can secure it with some sort of collateral. Most big spenders don’t bring cash to a casino, they take out a “marker” and if they owe at the end of the night, they settle the bill there or get sent a bill. In the old days, the casinos would hire Big Vinnie’s Louisville Slugger Collection Agency, Inc. These days they just sue you. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/8 "2008-06-30T15:30:36Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] I thought gambling debits and debits for illegal transaction (like prostitution) were not enforceable. Obviously I am wrong. [/QUOTE] You may be conflating legal gambling debts with a series of suits and countersuits involving credit cards. VISA and I think Discover sued cardholders for debts and the cardholders countersued, saying that the debts were for internet gambling, and thus illegal and unenforceable under the Wire Act. However, the countersuits were [dismissed](http://www.the-surfs-up.com/news/gamblingonlinenews.html), with the judges in the cases ruling that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/9 "2008-06-30T15:54:40Z")
From [Expertlaw.com](http://www.expertlaw.com/library/business/contract_law.html) > [@](#): > > In order to be enforceable, a contract cannot violate “public policy”. For example, if the subject matter of a contract is illegal, you cannot enforce the contract. A contract for the sale of illegal drugs, for example, violates public policy and is not enforceable. > > Please note that public policy can shift. **Traditionally, many states refused to honor gambling debts incurred in other jurisdictions on public policy grounds. However, as more and more states have permitted gambling within their own borders, that policy has mostly been abandoned and gambling debts from legal enterprises are now typically enforceable.** (A “bookie” might not be able to enforce a debt arising from an illegal gambling enterprise, but a legal casino will now typically be able to enforce its debt.) Similarly, it used to be legal to sell “switchblade kits” through the U.S. mail, but that practice is now illegal. Contracts for the interstate sale of such kits were no longer enforceable following that change in the law. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/10 "2008-06-30T16:35:19Z")
My understanding of UK law is that gambling debt is not enforceable. For example, if you put a £1,000 bet on (say) a seven-race accumulator with odds of 1,000,000 to 1, and win, the bookie is not legally required to pay out, and cannot be sued. The reason this does not happen is because any bookie reneging on a payout in this way would instantly get enough bad press to drive it out of business. The result of this is that bookies will only take bets they can afford to pay out, or that they can hedge. Similarly, casinos do not have to pay out if your £10million bet on number 17 comes good, which is why they have table limits. I have “borrowed” money from a casino to gamble by means of writing them a cheque, which they will not bank until the next day. As it happened, I won enough to “buy” the cheque back before the end of the night. If I hadn’t, I don’t think I could claim they were not allowed to cash the cheque due to it being a gambling debt, as the writing of the cheque initiates a separate contract. IANAL and could be misinformed on all the above. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/11 "2008-06-30T17:13:13Z")
The legal position in the UK is explained on [this page.](http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/contractsprof_blog/2007/09/gambling-debts-.html) > [@](#): > > Britain’s Gambling Act of 2005 – which comes into effect this year – has garnered a lot of attention. But one aspect of the new law hasn’t gotten much play, according to Carl Rohsler of London’s Hammonds. It’s the sentence in the act that says, “the fact that a contract relates to gambling shall not affect its enforcement.” > > That sweeping statement, says Rohsler, “wipes out over 200 years of precedent . . . not only in the UK but also in most common law jurisdictions around the world, that gambling contracts are debts of honour only.” Gambling houses that once had to demand that gamblers cough up the cash in advance (because they could not collect the debts in court) can now lend money to gamblers and collect their debts in the usual way. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/12 "2008-06-30T17:17:04Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] How could any casino possibly make money if you could just walk off the premises and not pay your debt? [/QUOTE] They can always ask you to pay in advance. In Germany, gambling debts arising from legalized play are legally enforceable. Debts from non-licensed play (which doesn’t necessarily mean criminal gambling; as long as you play in private and don’t do it regularly, non-licensed gambling is not a crime here) are not enforceable, but once you’ve paid them, you can’t recover them simply because the debt paid was unenforceable. You can recover them on other grounds, though, for example if cheating was involved. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that other jurisdictions where gambling debts are generally unenforceable apply a similar principle: Unenforceability, but no possibility of recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/13 "2008-06-30T17:44:31Z")
The Wynn, the creditor, lent Barley 400 grand. He gambled it at the Wynn, a typical contingency of the money being offered. He owed 400 grand to The Wynn. They were the creditor. He now owes the D.A.'s office 40 grand for their 10% processing fee. Just think of the Wynn as the creditor and Barley as debtor, and it’s easy to see why he owed the money back. ---
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/14 "2008-06-30T17:48:50Z")
As I understand it (from a semester class in business law whose final is Thursday), while gambling debts are usually unenforceable, casinos in Nevada routinely convert these debts into legal judgments against the gamblers. And legal judgments are enforceable across all 50 states, per the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-barkleys-gambling-debt/454762/15 "2008-07-01T02:46:19Z")
Thank you all.