# Charles D. Stimson you are an Ignorant Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836 "2007-01-13T14:44:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/1 "2007-01-13T14:44:41Z")
[Official Attacks Top Law Firms Over Detainees](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/washington/13gitmo.html?hp&ex=1168750800&en=5fe52d89722035fe&ei=5094&partner=homepage) > [@New York Times](#): > > He said, “I think, quite honestly, when corporate C.E.O.’s see that those firms are representing the very terrorists who hit their bottom line back in 2001, those C.E.O.’s are going to make those law firms choose between representing terrorists or representing reputable firms, and I think that is going to have major play in the next few weeks. And we want to watch that play out.” This could easily be yet another pit thread about Guantanamo, but it’s not. This is a pitting of a stunning display of naked ignorance on the part of a Senior Pentagon lawyer. I’m not sure what’s worse, the fact that this \*lawyer \*has no idea how the law should or does work, the fact that he thinks that what the detainees are receiving is representation in any meaningful sense of the word, or that this idiot fuckbag works for the Pentagon. So I pit all three. Seriously, what are the options for what’s going on in this guy’s head? 1. Evil: He knows that we don’t know if most of the detainees are guilty, but he suggests that we know they were part of 9/11 just to further his own political agenda. 2. Stupid: He genuinely thinks that we know that the detainees are all terrorists, and just can’t figure out why we haven’t sentenced them. (Also, the likelihood of top corporations choosing their legal representation based on anything other than the skill of the law firm is somewhere in the range of the likelihood that Charles D. Stimson will be fired.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/2 "2007-01-13T16:56:37Z")
That reads like a threat to me. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/3 "2007-01-13T17:19:59Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] this idiot fuckbag works for the Pentagon. [/QUOTE] Didn’t this guy take an oath to defend the sixth amendment? It seems like he’s plotting against it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/4 "2007-01-13T17:27:22Z")
Frankly, I would have hoped that someone in the Pentagon, (cause Bush certainly does not have the ethical compass to do it), would ask for Stimson’s resignation. Then, from the same linked article, I saw > [@](#): > > The same point appeared Friday on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, where Robert L. Pollock, a member of the newspaper’s editorial board, cited the list of law firms and quoted an unnamed “senior U.S. official” as saying, “Corporate C.E.O.’s seeing this should ask firms to choose between lucrative retainers and representing terrorists.” So, now we have the staff of the Wall Street Journal coming out in favor of denying adequate representation to people (presumed innocent in our system), using language all too reminiscent of the Red Scare of the 1940s - 1960s. I think it is pretty clear who has already decided to let the terrorists win. * * * Also from the linked article: Stimson has insinuated rather strongly that the lawyers working _pro bono_ are “really” being funded by some unnamed organizations and that someone should look into that funding. Then there is the final line of the article: > [@](#): > > In a 2006 interview with the magazine of Kenyon College, his alma mater, Mr. Stimson said that he was learning “to choose my words carefully because I am a public figure on a very, very controversial topic.” I have a better suggestion: say what you’d like, but stop sucking off the public tit while you express your opinions that run directly counter to the ethics of your profession. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/5 "2007-01-13T17:57:36Z")
Well justified pitting. I’m tempted to send Mr. Stimson a copy of **To Kill A Mockingbird** , **Gideon’s Trumpet** , and **The Defense Never Rests** , but I don’t think he’d get it. He’s a fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/6 "2007-01-13T18:09:11Z")
When will they make you guys give up, “Land of the Free,” as blatantly false advertising? ---
**Author:** ![e-bow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@e-bow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/e-bow)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/7 "2007-01-13T18:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] When will they make you guys give up, “Land of the Free,” as blatantly false advertising? [/QUOTE] I’d say about the time Australia recognizes that control orders, criminalizing speech about euthanasia, criminalizing criticism of the government as sedition and doing away with double jeopardy and unanimous jury verdicts hardly qualifies as giving a fair-go. Get your own house in order before you criticize others. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/8 "2007-01-13T18:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] When will they make you guys give up, “Land of the Free,” as blatantly false advertising? [/QUOTE] Hey, he’s advocating a free market solution. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/9 "2007-01-13T18:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d say about the time Australia recognizes that control orders, criminalizing speech about euthanasia, criminalizing criticism of the government as sedition and doing away with double jeopardy and unanimous jury verdicts hardly qualifies as giving a fair-go. Get your own house in order before you criticize others. Why should they, the US is so perfect it finds ways to criticise everybody else, so why can’t we all play ? Besides which, Australia isn’t pretending to have some moral superiority. it’s not making a play about defending the whole of the ‘free’ world in the smae sense as the US does. What’s more, the criticism of the US is valid. It has laws and principles, enshrined in the Constitutuion and its amendments, and yet those who are sworn to uphold them as government representatives, are actually doing the very opposite. It doesn’t matter what you think of the policies of other nations, it still does not excuse the outrageous comments from this legal idiot. Frankly, I’m quite pleased you feel some sort of anger at having your nation criticised by foreigners, now go and use that anger on the ones who deserve it, and raise your country back up toward the ideals it supposedly represents. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/10 "2007-01-13T20:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] When will they make you guys give up, “Land of the Free,” as blatantly false advertising? [/QUOTE] _‘And thirdly, the code is more what you’d call “guidelines” than actual rules.’’_ While the U.S. frequently fails to live up to its ideals, it should be noted that Stimson is one functionary (being angrily shredded by most of his professional community and (so far) only supported by one newspaper editor), not the actual policy of the U.S. government. ---
**Author:** ![if6was9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@if6was9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if6was9)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/11 "2007-01-13T21:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] I’m not sure what’s worse, the fact that this \*lawyer \*has no idea how the law should or does work, [/QUOTE] I saw this last night, didn’t have the gumption to post it… I don’t think he has no idea, I think he (and the whole of the administration) doesn’t _care_ how the law works. Bend it to their own ends, in any way they can. Admin officials distancing themselves from Stimpson’s stance is BS. This has been SOP for years. I’m surprised the WSJ jumped right in line (sucked dick) so easily. It is bizness tho. 9-11 hurt the economy so any means necessary… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/12 "2007-01-13T21:29:56Z")
This is the sort of thing that should lead to someone being disbarred. Companies are free to boycott law firms that represent clients they don’t like. But for a lawyer, let alone one acting as an employee by the government, to advocate that? It’s at the very least unethical. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/13 "2007-01-13T22:50:08Z")
Do top US corporate and commercial firms also usually handle personal criminal matters that are not related to corp/comm.? In any event the fellow is scum. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/14 "2007-01-13T23:26:06Z")
[QUOTE=Muffin] Do top US corporate and commercial firms also usually handle personal criminal matters that are not related to corp/comm.? In any event the fellow is scum. [/QUOTE] Top corporate lawyers do many kinds of pro bono work. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/15 "2007-01-17T02:38:21Z")
A bunch of law groups came out and called for Stimson’s firing today. [Reuters story](http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2007-01-17T020145Z_01_N16247800_RTRUKOC_0_US-GUANTANAM0-DETAINEES-LAWYERS.xml&src=rss) > [@](#): > > Stimson’s remarks were aimed at “chilling the willingness” of lawyers to represent Guantanamo detainees and were contrary to the “bedrock principles” of the right to counsel and the presumption on innocence, read the letter signed by the American Association of Jurists, the International Association of Democratic Lawyers, the National Lawyers Guild and the Society of American Law Teachers. > > “The threats by Mr. Stimson are not subtle. They imply these pro bono lawyers are terrorists,” the letter read. “The administration must not only disavow these remarks, but Mr. Stimson should be publicly admonished and relieved of his duties for making these allegations and threats.” ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/16 "2007-01-17T02:45:19Z")
I hope they sue his ass for slander. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/17 "2007-01-17T04:11:24Z")
Good for them. The law groups, that is. Frankly, I doubt that the American CEO has time to fire his un-American attorneys, what with sending American jobs overseas and what not. ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/18 "2007-01-17T04:44:29Z")
I can’t believe nobody is commenting on the fact that the reason this guy reckons these CEOs should boycott the law firms in question is because they are representing the terrorists that hit their ‘bottom line’. FFS people, if we ignore the innocent until proven guilty and everyone deserves representation things for a moment, since when did we find it morally acceptable to consider impact on profits as more important than the slaughter of thousands of innocent people? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/19 "2007-01-17T04:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Frankly, I doubt that the American CEO has time to fire his un-American attorneys… [/QUOTE] Sure he does; [7 or 8 US Attorneys since december.](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002347.php) It’s just that the administration’s definition of un-American is different than America’s definition of un-American. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836/20 "2007-01-17T05:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=rocksolid] FFS people, if we ignore the innocent until proven guilty and everyone deserves representation things for a moment, since when did we find it morally acceptable to consider impact on profits as more important than the slaughter of thousands of innocent people? [/QUOTE] We don’t. But i still think the most immediately salient issue here is this douchebag’s attack on the very principles of the justice system that he is supposed to uphold. We have a lawyer in an important government position who actually thinks it’s acceptable to criticize—nay, threaten—lawyers who have the temerity to defend people he doesn’t like. Unfortunately, though, Stimson is just one example of a much larger American malaise, one that i’ve come across a bunch of times—including right here on this message board—since moving to the United States. Many Americans think their justice system is the best in the world, and there’s some validity to that. They will trumpet the values of justice and of “equality before the law” and of “innocent until proven guilty.” Al absolutely true, at least in principle. And yet, on a depressingly high number of occasions, the same people who trumpet those values also rant against defense attorneys who have the gall to represent “thieves, rapists, and murderers.” They ask how those attorneys can sleep at night, and why they would even consider a career that involves defending such people. I’m not sure exactly what it is that causes this mental disconnect, this inability to appreciate the connection between the justice system and the people and procedures of which it is composed, but it’s all too real in America. And rather worrying. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/charles-d-stimson-you-are-an-ignorant-asshole/387836.md?page=2)